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Do you dare? Entering the auction vulnerable

Poll: Do you dare? (42 member(s) have cast votes)

Your call?

  1. Pass (33 votes [78.57%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 78.57%

  2. Double (4 votes [9.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  3. 1NT (5 votes [11.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.90%

  4. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#21 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-June-09, 12:11

View Postwank, on 2012-June-08, 15:16, said:



i'm not worried about being sawn off - partner must have short spades and should have somewhere to run to if we get cracked.



That is some amazing logic. Having our longest suit be their suit is GOOD if we want to run, because partner will be short? lol.
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#22 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-June-09, 12:18

It is not like overcalling 1N is going to get you to all of these light 4H games. In fact, if partner does not have that many HCP he will pass with 4 hearts and you will miss hearts when you might have otherwise found them starting with pass. If he transfers and you super accept, he still has to be able to go unless you plan on superaccepting with 4H. If he is transfering and accepting a superaccept, you might well still find 4H having started with pass. I feel like 1N bidders are acting like 1N will get you to all 4H contracts, whereas pass will make you miss them all. It is not like that at all. If it is a heart PARTIAL I'd much rather start with pass, and that is not that unlikely.
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#23 User is offline   Quartic 

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Posted 2012-June-10, 02:08

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-June-09, 10:36, said:

At the other table, the enemy had solid agreements on runouts, whereas our teammates didn't:


The combined total cost was 12 IMPs.


Looks like your teammates were on different wavelengths about double of 2. How much would that have gone for?
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#24 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-June-10, 03:17

View PostQuartic, on 2012-June-10, 02:08, said:

Looks like your teammates were on different wavelengths about double of 2. How much would that have gone for?

Dunno, you tell us. ;)
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#25 User is offline   cloa513 

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Posted 2012-June-10, 03:35

View PostJLOGIC, on 2012-June-09, 12:10, said:

Got what you deserved. Other guys didn't, unlucky :P

Your 1N is really just understrength. Having 5 of their 5 card suit makes your hand much worse, you have no potential to set up spade tricks like you do with most 5 card suits. Having all of your honors in short suits is obviously bad, they don't help you set up tricks as much as usual. Even your 4 card suit is just Kxxx! Add that to the fact that you only have 15, your hand is just not worth 1N. Your spade values are not even positional, it's the jack. Having a stiff club is a negative, it's possible partner will compete in clubs or overestimate his clubs. And having 5 of their suit is bad when you have such a bad hand because if you get doubled you will often have nowhere to run (as here).

It's true our hand is much better for hearts than NT, but if the opps bid clubs (eg 1S p 1N P 2C seems likely) you can at least double and get your side in much more safely with more chance of playing in a fit (and possibly get a penalty if it is their misfit). If they keep bidding your long suits, well that's good, you will get to defend vulnerable with their suits breaking badly when you rate to not make anything. Forget about going for numbers, even going -100 when you could have gone +200 is extremely expensive and not unlikely (1S 1N AP instead of defending 2S).

I would just expect to get too high too often by overcalling 1N (when partner bids 3N), I'd expect a disaster some non-negligible percentage of the time when they nail me, I'd expect to lose many many partscore swings all vul which will be very expensive because I declare 1N or 3C instead of defending, and I'd expect to miss 4H sometimes (though I'd still get to it sometimes after 1S P 1N p 2C X). The loss of r/r partscore swings frequently occuring is what is really bad.

They only went down 2 because of poor play- don't discard a heart, discard a spade.
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#26 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-June-10, 03:41

View Postcloa513, on 2012-June-10, 03:35, said:

They only went down 2 because of poor play- don't discard a heart, discard a spade.

You do realise that the double dummy result of discarding a spade is down 4?

Discarding a diamond might have been interesting.
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#27 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-June-10, 03:48

methinks i would have led a diamond at t2 - if south has the king you don't have the entries to pick it up and if north has it you need to knock it out before they untangle the clubs (a blockage has to be odds on).
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#28 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-June-10, 05:34

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-June-10, 03:41, said:

You do realise that the double dummy result of discarding a spade is down 4?

Discarding a diamond might have been interesting.

There's no need to risk -4. Discard as you did, but when North exits with a heart, just cash the red suits ending in dummy, then lead a spade. That works regardless of how the spade honours are distributed.

The defence could have prevented this by cashing two spades and then exiting in a red suit.
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#29 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-June-10, 05:35

I have a complicated convention to be able to run into 2, I bid 2.
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