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sold out too soon ATB

#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-June-01, 09:01



-90 was not as good as +110
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#2 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-June-01, 09:04

Why didn't east just bid a NT? I realise the stop isnt ideal, but you know you are going to be in a tough spot if you dble. Besides, 1d is often just a balanced hand, no point worrying about stops as much if they might only have 3 diamonds.
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#3 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2012-June-01, 09:12

View Postphil_20686, on 2012-June-01, 09:04, said:

Why didn't east just bid a NT? I realise the stop isnt ideal, but you know you are going to be in a tough spot if you dble. Besides, 1d is often just a balanced hand, no point worrying about stops as much if they might only have 3 diamonds.
What percentage of the time do they only have three diamonds? I imagine you are right about 1NT, but I would be thinking "they might only have 3 or 4 diamonds".
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-June-01, 09:14

Would have overcalled 1N, but having Xd I'd X again, sounds like partner probably has 5 clubs, depends how much he needs to bid 2M over 2.
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#5 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-June-01, 09:22

If you can't take 6 tricks on defence, can't they always manage 5 when they defend?

Yes, I can see that it is easy to lose one's way....if spades are 3-3 and clubs 3-2, you can't cash many hearts before switching...on some layouts, you have to switch at trick 2 and on others at trick 3.

As for their defending...if the reason they make 90 is that spades are 4-2, then they can always get a spade ruff unless clubs are 4-1.

I wonder if there would have been an ATB re the bidding if the defence had been perfect (assuming you can beat 2) or if the opps had gone +100 against 3.

As for overcalling 1N, how does that help if S bids 2? Is West, red, going to push to 3, with partner usually holding diamond cards?
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#6 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-June-01, 10:32

View Postmikeh, on 2012-June-01, 09:22, said:

If you can't take 6 tricks on defence, can't they always manage 5 when they defend?

Yes, I can see that it is easy to lose one's way....if spades are 3-3 and clubs 3-2, you can't cash many hearts before switching...on some layouts, you have to switch at trick 2 and on others at trick 3.

As for their defending...if the reason they make 90 is that spades are 4-2, then they can always get a spade ruff unless clubs are 4-1.

I wonder if there would have been an ATB re the bidding if the defence had been perfect (assuming you can beat 2) or if the opps had gone +100 against 3.

As for overcalling 1N, how does that help if S bids 2? Is West, red, going to push to 3, with partner usually holding diamond cards?


I imagine west will dble and east will bid 2S. seems like a reasonable spot. They might take the push to 3d.
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#7 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-June-01, 10:48

View Postphil_20686, on 2012-June-01, 10:32, said:

I imagine west will dble and east will bid 2S. seems like a reasonable spot. They might take the push to 3d.

West will double? That seems pretty aggressive on a more or less balanced 5 count. I can't imagine that East would do anything except possibly compete to 3. And that is quite a position to take.

Any action that East takes could easily turn a plus into a minus. That is one possible benefit to doubling - when 2 goes down it will certainly improve the score. But -180 is also a possibility if East doubles.
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#8 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-June-01, 13:11

View PostFluffy, on 2012-June-01, 09:01, said:



-90 was not as good as +110




AT MP i can see passing--not willing to go -100 vs -90

AT IMPS this consdieration is almost trivial and x is called
for not just because you might make something but because the opps
might go to the three level and you can set them. This is almost a risk
free 2nd x p will never leave it in (they are relatively short in dia)..

I personally hate the 1n overcall because p still can raise to 3n and be
upset over the quality of your dia stopper too much risk.
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#9 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-June-01, 15:08

I agree with East's double and the final pass. With the West hand I would prefer to give up a natural 2NT and be able to show a good or bad hand with clubs. No blame otherwise.
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#10 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 20:14

:P I think E should double a second time. He knows that pard is "short" in - at worst a doubleton. Therefore, he must have a four card major or five clubs. Imo, you simply can't sell out with 17 HCP even though pard didn't bid over 2. Can it lose? Of course, but we are playing a game of percentages, esp. at MP's.
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#11 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 20:30

Agree with the comments that whatever you cant let the opp play in 2d on this auction.

they clearly have at least an 8 card fit in d at the two level.
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#12 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 02:56

View PostFluffy, on 2012-June-01, 09:01, said:



-90 was not as good as +110


I think after 2d, E can do responsive double maybe is a good option. when partner rebid 2s, it could pass.
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#13 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-June-04, 02:20

View Postjdeegan, on 2012-June-02, 20:14, said:

I think E should double a second time. He knows that pard is "short" in - at worst a doubleton.

Knows? Have you never had opponents open 1 with 4432 and their partners raised with 4? Worse, if partner is short and did not act they must have pretty much rubbish. Therefore I would certainly not double a second time as East. On the other hand a double from West is possible on thr "hand with shortage acts" principle. At these colours it is hardly obligatory though - Game All is the worst time for taking marginal actions at MP. As gszes wrote, -100 is a potential disaster against -90.
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#14 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2012-June-04, 04:21

I always raise diamonds on 4 and sometimes on 3 if I think the hand warrants it, particularly over a double.
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#15 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-June-04, 05:03

I had bid the E/W hands exactly like this pair did. Yes 1 NT or an artifical 2 NT had helped, but without this particular agreement, I had defend 2 as well.
Kind Regards

Roland


Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
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