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The Misadventures of Rex and Jay-#5778 A messy misfit

#1 User is offline   microcap 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 05:58

You hold
in 3rd hand at teams.

Partner opens 1, could be 2 cards. RHO overcalls 1, you bid 1, pass by LHO, partner bids 1, pass by RHO.

You have an awkward rebid...what's your best lie and why?

As always, the table result and argument will come later!
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#2 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 06:31

:P Pass. Game our way is remote. 1 is NOT forcing in any system I know of. The contract of 1 should be reasonable. A Pass really puts pressure on LHO. If he/she does not pass, it gives you and partner good information.
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 06:40

curiosly 1 is forcing on any system I know. Pass is reasonable since the hands where 1 can be very strong are 4144 and that is impossible now also the club void makes this hand subminimum for any game purposes, but I would go with 1NT anyway.
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#4 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 07:42

1 isn't forcing for me but I bid 1N anyway.
Where there's ink there's squid Phil.
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#5 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 09:12

1 is nonforcing to me, so I am happy.
Kind Regards

Roland


Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
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#6 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 18:00

1 is non-forcing, I'm passing.
Chris Gibson
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#7 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 18:09

View PostCSGibson, on 2012-June-02, 18:00, said:

1 is non-forcing, I'm passing.



ditto
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#8 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 21:56

I'd like to know the vul and scoring, but probably 1NT > 2 > Pass.
A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem – Albert Einstein
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#9 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 22:29

View PostStatto, on 2012-June-02, 21:56, said:

I'd like to know the vul and scoring, but probably 1NT > 2 > Pass.



you are told teams and you are nv in OP
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#10 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-June-02, 22:49

View Postmike777, on 2012-June-02, 22:29, said:

you are told teams and you are nv in OP

Sorry, missed that, but not told opps vul...
A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem – Albert Einstein
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#11 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 01:37

1 rebid by opener is not forcing,so pass is a good idea with min hand ,then waiting for a chance to do penalty double if opps go on overcall at the 2 of level.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game.(Fluffy)
寻找自己的错误才是学习桥牌的唯一进步方法。


链接论坛的使用方法。
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#12 User is offline   microcap 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 06:17

Most of you got this right, but I suggest that the few of you who bid 1NT [as did Rex at the table] should strongly reconsider! I mentioned this argument and Rex's 1NT bid at the table to our regular teammates. They both scrunched their faces like kids eating their vegetables :blink:

I held a fun and potentially powerful collection of:
When my partner shows me a balanced hand, I think I can take 9 tricks in NT if he has either club honor or even 2 small and I can pick up the queen. It didnt go well for obvious reasons.

My bidding screams a misfit with 9-11 black cards, I cannot for the life of me understand a 1NT bid. If anything, a 2 raise on 3 cards is the only other option besides pass.
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#13 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 06:36

Uh... can't you be 4=3=2=4 or so?
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 07:14

View Postmicrocap, on 2012-June-03, 06:17, said:

When my partner shows me a balanced hand


When did your partner do so?

I am impressed Jay, this is the first time you post a hand to argue against your partner, not to hear opinions.
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#15 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 09:15

You raised 1NT to 3NT on the 4117 hand? I think that's more deserving of a scrunched up face than anything your partner did. 3 looks normal.
If future responses could be on topic, i.e. comparing the two suggested systems, rather than some alternative nutjob method, that'd be appreciated, thanks. - MickyB
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#16 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 10:40

Yes, I agree with what Andy wrote. However, I also agree that 1NT was a bad bid and that those who bid it should reconsider.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#17 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 13:02

came to party late as usual have seen openers hand. Does not change my opinion.

I am not going to rage over the 3n bid which I think was overly optimistic (choose 3c
because we arent making 3n if p cant provide a club honor and exta values hmmm
what about 5c though).


IMO after 1s responder has no fear of rebidding 1n. The bidding does not require
responder to be balanced here they merely have promised 1 dia stop and no
spade raise. From responder POV there is no reason 4h cant still be a viable game
so they need to make a bid that allows hearts to be found yet still keeps the bidding
as low as possible in case there is a misfit (like this hand). I would give some credit
to a 2s bid (huge favorite to be a 3 card raise since we did not neg x) but that puts
the partnership in a bind when opener has a much more balanced minimum type
hand and also makes finding hearts much more difficult if opener is a bit stronger.
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#18 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2012-June-03, 14:42

View Postgszes, on 2012-June-03, 13:02, said:


IMO after 1s responder has no fear of rebidding 1n. The bidding does not require
responder to be balanced here they merely have promised 1 dia stop and no
spade raise. From responder POV there is no reason 4h cant still be a viable game
so they need to make a bid that allows hearts to be found yet still keeps the bidding
as low as possible in case there is a misfit (like this hand). I would give some credit
to a 2s bid (huge favorite to be a 3 card raise since we did not neg x) but that puts
the partnership in a bind when opener has a much more balanced minimum type
hand and also makes finding hearts much more difficult if opener is a bit stronger.


I pretty much agree with gszes's assessment of why you should respond.

It is possible that opener could hold something like AJxx AQx x KJ10xx and 4 even has a play.

As for opener, the hand has only 14 HCP but is a 4 loser hand. The outstanding feature is the suit, so there's no reason not to tell partner that with your rebid. 3 looks about right because it's just possible you might have 3 losers if the hand is a misfit.

Responder then can cooperate in finding the best spot. Responder will know that any honors held even a stiff can carry full value. Unfortunately, in this case, responder should just pass.

It's a good bidding policy to never place cards in partner's hand until bridge logic tells you they are there.
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#19 User is offline   microcap 

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Posted 2012-June-04, 10:14

I always appreciate the replies and in general Rex and I use the answers to resolve our differences [of which there are millions]. Sometimes I feel stronger about my position than others! In this case, I think 1NT is really a poor choice.

To answer someone's question, and I should have clarified this earlier, In our system, we would not be 4-2-3-4 on this auction--hence my comment about the at least 9 black cards in this hand. Sorry.

I have no issue with the criticisms of 3NT-- 3 is probably better and I would like to think at MP's that's what i would bid. At teams I just felt that 3NT was the most likely game. As noted, about the worst hand would be 3-5-4-1 and even then, if the queen comes down or the singleton is an honor, I like my chances in 3NT.

It has to be a pretty good rule not to bid notrump with a void in partner's first bid natural suit...comments?
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#20 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-June-04, 10:59

View Postmicrocap, on 2012-June-04, 10:14, said:

It has to be a pretty good rule not to bid notrump with a void in partner's first bid natural suit...comments?


1-(pass)-??

-
KJ942
J92
Q10652

I can make it much worse probably.
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