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More average and average + should be awarded

#1 User is offline   movingon 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 07:34

This post may be "duplicative" as I see that Fred started a terrific thread here entitled "Using Gib when adjusting scores," but I have been wanting to write on a related subject for some time now. (In fact, the Gib thread shed some light on this subject for me.)

Three times lately, in ACBL speedball tournaments my partnerships have been awarded the worst possible result on hands when in all three cases our opponents were slow throughout the 3 boards because of poor connections, AND these results were clearly not certain.

In one case, the opponents were weak players and were awarded a game making contract that required a trump smothering play. Our result was near the bottom of the field.

In the second instance, the director assumed best defense which didn't look all that clear to me.

In the most recent incident, the field was making 5 spades and we were awarded 4 spades because, according to the director, "the best line of play would result in making 4". I stuck around after the game, arguing my point with the director for some time. I had earlier called about the slow play of the defender (again a poor connection) and told him how I would have played the hand resulting in making 5 (after the fact, of course, so probably meaningless). I believe our result was a 28% or something like that. Eventually, however, either being convinced by my argument or just being tired of my whining, the director adjusted the result to average. That was more acceptable, especially after being initially awarded a 28% but I knew that if I had been given just 10 more seconds I would have made 5.

I am thinking that some boards should just not be adjusted.
I am also thinking that if some boards cannot be adjusted and a pair has been particularly slow throughout the round that an average plus should be considered.

Noreen (movingon)
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#2 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 08:11

When you play in a speedball tournament and the opps do not act in a timely manner (for whatever reason) you should call the TD and let him know what is happening. Often this will result in an Ave+ award when a board cannot be played.
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#3 User is offline   movingon 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 14:49

View PostArtK78, on 2012-May-23, 08:11, said:

When you play in a speedball tournament and the opps do not act in a timely manner (for whatever reason) you should call the TD and let him know what is happening. Often this will result in an Ave+ award when a board cannot be played.


Thanks, Art... but, yes, I do this. And I bid and play as fast as I can to catch up when there has been slow bid and play (sometimes to my detriment), but I don't recall the last average plus that I received due to an unfinished board. (One of the veteran directors, however, has asked my partner or me to let him know if we are not able to finish the round after he has observed opps painfully slow play. I do appreciate that.)

Perhaps it would be better to slow down, oneself, and just not start that third board. (But, somehow, this doesn't seem right. But it also doesn't seem right to have the third board adjusted to the worst possible result when this does happen.)

Don't get me wrong. On the whole, BBO ACBL directors are really very good and can be trusted to do what is right and fair. I have had few complaints over the years.
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#4 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 15:01

View Postmovingon, on 2012-May-23, 14:49, said:

Thanks, Art... but, yes, I do this. And I bid and play as fast as I can to catch up when there has been slow bid and play (sometimes to my detriment), but I don't recall the last average plus that I received due to an unfinished board. (One of the veteran directors, however, has asked my partner or me to let him know if we are not able to finish the round after he has observed opps painfully slow play. I do appreciate that.)

Perhaps it would be better to slow down, oneself, and just not start that third board. (But, somehow, this doesn't seem right. But it also doesn't seem right to have the third board adjusted to the worst possible result when this does happen.)

Don't get me wrong. On the whole, BBO ACBL directors are really very good and can be trusted to do what is right and fair. I have had few complaints over the years.

Sometimes you have to lobby the TD to give you an Ave+. I have done it on occasion when I believe that the opps were completely at fault, and usually the TD will award an Ave+.

I try not to be a pain about it, but I also don't like it when I believe that slow opps ruin my chances to obtain a good result through slow play.
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#5 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 20:18

View Postmovingon, on 2012-May-23, 07:34, said:

I am thinking that some boards should just not be adjusted.
I am also thinking that if some boards cannot be adjusted and a pair has been particularly slow throughout the round that an average plus should be considered.


These problems would be a lot easier to fit if the software followed the laws and didn't curtail the hand once it has been started (I.e., let people play the hand to completion). If they are too late in some round, take the hand away before they start, but once they start, let them finish the darn hand! A lot of problems would go away with this approach.
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#6 User is offline   nathan2008 

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Posted 2012-May-24, 07:15

I wonder who are ACBL speedball TDs. Because they come from all over the world. I think most TDs are very good except ACBL_XX (XXXX from XXXX)... (My friends and I won't play ACBL if he is the TD.)
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#7 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-May-24, 19:18

nathan2008, I removed the names from your post. It's against forum rules to name names. If you have a complaint about an ACBL TD, send mail to jacki at bridgebcase.com.

#8 User is offline   bluejak 

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Posted 2012-May-25, 06:23

Should there really be a "c" in that eddress?
David Stevenson

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#9 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-May-25, 10:49

View Postbluejak, on 2012-May-25, 06:23, said:

Should there really be a "c" in that eddress?

I was going to say yes, because I thought you were asking about the "c" in "jacki". Then I noticed the typo in "bridgebcase.com".

Actually, probably better to send to acbl@bridgebase.com.

#10 User is offline   movingon 

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Posted 2013-January-09, 21:08

I had another one of those, opps with bad connection (this one from Poland) leaving me with less than 1 minute to play a hand and the director assumes best defense and puts me down 1 on an adjustment.

I am in 3nt.

Opponent, after jump overcalling 2 hearts on my left, leads a heart. The doubleton Q is on board. I play it and his partner takes the Ace and returns a heart. I play low (I hold the King with 2 others. In retrospect, I should have taken the 2nd heart, hoping the jump overcaller had 6 hearts but I am trying to play fast in the 30 seconds I have left). In any case, my rho switches to a club. I have 5 to the Ace and play the Ace when time is up. This Ace has not yet registered.

Ok lho has doubleton Kj of clubs. If he dumps his King under my Ace the hand gets set. If he doesn't I will make the hand.

Is it fair to assume best defense here?

Again, opps have left me no time to play the hand. I even said to the director while waiting for my lho to make the opening lead that is not forthcoming that with less than a minute left I didn't really want to play this hand! Why not? precisely because I have been burned by best defense assumed in the past!

I asked for an adjustment but none came, of course. We had a fine game going by the way. This last board was worth 15%.

Got that off my chest, anyway!

Noreen
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#11 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2013-January-10, 11:43

If it required clever defense like that, I suspect the TD used DD analysis to come up with the result. When there are lots of tables needing adjustment, this may be a common crutch.

#12 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2013-January-12, 11:52

in alot of instances the TD can use GIB or deep finesse analyzer to determine if result is valid
now if it requires dropping a stiff King offside i dont think so, I know when I run games in free mode
I go back and look at where hand left off and use GIB.

You can blame it on the time constraints back in the old days these games used to be 6-15 minute rounds(maybe 12) but games were every 90 minutes
but when they went to speed ball you have lost almost 30 minutes per game, I dont usually play in them goes opps play to slow so your last board
is almost always in jeopardy on not being completed, but usually my experience is TDs usually do a good job of providing equity
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#13 User is offline   movingon 

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Posted 2013-January-12, 12:05

Thanks for your response. But it was my LHO who needs to drop his K from his KJ in order to set me.
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#14 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2013-January-12, 22:40

I think the word you're looking for is "unblock".

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