[Joeydinky]

Hi All,

Have run into many hands where a 4-4 major fit would have resulted in a positive score instead of 1NT going down.
Wish that Gib was programmed to play trash or garbage stayman. We miss too many 4-4 major fits because they are not programmed accordingly.

[ArtK78]

Hate trash Stayman. I vote no.

[Bbradley62]

uday, on 2011-April-06, 17:49, said:

It will use {Garbage Stayman} with the classic shape (4450)

[ArtK78]

I suspect that what Uday said in the quote above means that GIB will bid 2♣ and pass the response. Not exactly what is meant by garbage Stayman.

[Bbradley62]

uday, on 2011-April-06, 17:49, said:

It will use GS with the classic shape ( 4450 )

ArtK78, on 2012-May-21, 09:01, said:

I suspect that what Uday said in the quote above means that GIB will bid 2♣ and pass the response. Not exactly what is meant by garbage Stayman.

What is "garbage Stayman" if it's something other than bidding 2♣ then passing with an appropriately-shaped bust?

[ArtK78]

Garbage Stayman is the sequence 1NT-2♣-2♦-2♥ showing a weak hand with both majors. Responder intended to pass a 2 of a major response. When the response was 2♦, responder now bids 2♥ which, by agreement, shows a desire to play in 2♥ or 2♠.

For those not playing Garbage Stayman, 2♥ is invitational with 5 hearts (maybe 4 spades as well, but it is not promised).

[Bbradley62]

It's not clear to me that yours is the universal understanding of Garbage Stayman. Most of the references produced by google use the "three-suited hand will pass anything" method. When I've played it (almost) as you described, our agreement was that the 2M bid showed a 5-4 majors bust.

[pigpenz]

I remember watching Mike Passell back in Reno in KO's with nothing just transfer to 4 card suit
problem with GIB is that say you have crappy 8 or 7 hcp, opps balance and you bid 2NT maybe to make or down one, GIB
will still take it as inivational and most of the time bid 3NT.


Its just like there is no such thing as a 4NT takeout over 4♥ or 4♠

[ArtK78]

Bidding 2♣ on a worthless 4-4-5-0 hand planning to pass any response is just bridge.

Garbage Stayman is an agreement to bid 2♣ followed by 2♥ if necessary on a bad hand with major suits.

[Joeydinky]

ArtK78, on 2012-May-21, 10:22, said:

Bidding 2♣ on a worthless 4-4-5-0 hand planning to pass any response is just bridge.

Garbage Stayman is an agreement to bid 2♣ followed by 2♥ if necessary on a bad hand with major suits.

Hi again,
Standard garbage stayman as I learned it from at least 3 experts including Rodwell was to bid it on any 4414,4441 hand, or of course any hand with a void in Cs or Ds. As decribed above after a 2D response, 2Hs is weak with both majors showing equal or longer Hs and is pass or correct. If you are 5-4 or 4-5 and your 5 card suit is stonger than your 4 card suit just transfer and pass. If your 4 card suit is better than your 5 card suit bid garbage stayman. Some experts even use garbage stayman when 4432 or 4423 and weak with about 80% success. They like playing in their 4-4 major fits when weak.

[Joeydinky]

ArtK78, on 2012-May-21, 10:22, said:

Bidding 2♣ on a worthless 4-4-5-0 hand planning to pass any response is just bridge.

Garbage Stayman is an agreement to bid 2♣ followed by 2♥ if necessary on a bad hand with major suits.

Hi again,
Standard garbage stayman as I learned it from at least 3 experts including Rodwell was to bid it on any 4414,4441 hand, or of course any hand with a void in Cs or Ds. As decribed above after a 2D response, 2Hs is weak with both majors showing equal or longer Hs and is pass or correct. If you are 5-4 or 4-5 and your 5 card suit is stonger than your 4 card suit just transfer and pass. If your 4 card suit is better than your 5 card suit bid garbage stayman. Some experts even use garbage stayman when 4432 or 4423 and weak with about 80% success. They like playing in their 4-4 major fits when weak.

[ArtK78]

When I referred to bidding 2♣ on a bad 4-4-5-0 hand, I meant a hand with short clubs and 5 diamonds, so that there is no danger in bidding 2 - partner had to bid one of your suits. This is just bridge. It is probably right to do this on bad 4-4-4-1 hands with short clubs as well. There is a chance you might wind up in a 4-2 diamond fit, but it is a small chance.

You are referring to any hand with a short minor suit, so that if partner bids diamonds and diamonds is your short suit, you must bid 2♥. If the 2♥ rebid shows a bad hand, then you are playing Garbage Stayman.