BBO Discussion Forums: wilkosz responses - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

wilkosz responses

#1 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,474
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2012-May-06, 03:30

Me and my partner are considering to adopt Wilkosz 2 whenever it's allowed. On Chris Ryall's site there's a brief writeup of the responses and what to do in case of intervention. There are also 2 continuation schemes after 2-2NT.

Does anyone have experience with, and detailed/extended notes on this convention, willing to share? If you prefer email, send me a PM so I can give you my email address.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,422
  • Joined: 2005-January-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cologne, Germany
  • Interests:Sleeping, Eating

Posted 2012-May-06, 05:10

I've never played Wilkosz in a very serious partnership, but I've played it quite a bit in casual partnerships and never run into any real problems. I would say the most important thing to agree, besides your constructive continuations, is what to do when they double 2, e.g. pass = suggestion to play if opener has diamonds, rdbl = tell me your major, or whatever.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
0

#3 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,474
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2012-May-06, 13:23

Something I haven't seen in Wilkosz response structures is the possibility to invite. Is this just thrown overboard?
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#4 User is offline   nigel_k 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,196
  • Joined: 2009-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wellington, NZ

Posted 2012-May-06, 13:55

One suggestion: Use 2 by responder as the asking bid, not 2NT. There are cases where you want to play 2 but they aren't as common in practice as you might think, and the two extra steps in constructive auctions are obviously extremely valuable.
0

#5 User is offline   glen 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,504
  • Joined: 2003-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ottawa, Canada
  • Interests:Military history, WW II wargames

Posted 2012-May-07, 06:06

View PostFree, on 2012-May-06, 13:23, said:

Something I haven't seen in Wilkosz response structures is the possibility to invite. Is this just thrown overboard?

When I played it we used 3 as P/C for the opener's lowest ranking suit, and 3 as GI for opener's unknown major (if opener is 5-5+ in the majors will always accept the invite and bids 3NT to show both majors)
'All you are is mean / And a liar, and pathetic, and alone in life / And mean, and mean, and mean, and mean ... And all you're ever gonna be is mean / Why you gotta be so mean?' Taylor Swift
0

#6 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,474
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2012-May-07, 07:47

And what do you do when you only want to invite in 1 of the majors? With tolerance for OM you can bid 2OM hoping that partner doesn't have it and corrects, but without tolerance for OM you're pretty much stuck?
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#7 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,366
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2012-May-07, 08:31

View PostFree, on 2012-May-06, 13:23, said:

Something I haven't seen in Wilkosz response structures is the possibility to invite. Is this just thrown overboard?


Back when I played Wilkosz we used a 3 response as a game invitational hand

Responder needed to have EITHER tolerance for both majors OR s three suited hand

Showing a max forces you to the 4 level, but normally not to 5m

After 2 - 3 (art. game invite)

3H = no interest in game (Hearts or both majors)
3S = no interest in game (Spades and a minor)
3N = Max with Hearts
4C = Spades and Clubs (Max values, but non forcing)
4D = Spades and Diamonds (Max values, but non forcing
4H = Both majors (max hand)
4S = Super max (Spades and a minor)
Alderaan delenda est
0

#8 User is offline   nigel_k 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,196
  • Joined: 2009-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wellington, NZ

Posted 2012-May-07, 14:08

After 2-2:

2: Spades and a minor
2NT: Hearts and a minor, minimum
3/: Hearts and the bid minor, maximum
3: Majors, minimum
3NT: Majors, maximum

If you give up the ability to play 2, you can switch it around to right-side more often. There is enough space to do everything, and some left over.
0

#9 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,366
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2012-May-07, 14:11

View Postnigel_k, on 2012-May-07, 14:08, said:

After 2-2:

2: Spades and a minor
2NT: Hearts and a minor, minimum
3/: Hearts and the bid minor, maximum
3: Majors, minimum
3NT: Majors, maximum

If you give up the ability to play 2, you can switch it around to right-side more often. There is enough space to do everything, and some left over.


Never heard of anyone playing 2H as anything other than pass or correct
Alderaan delenda est
0

#10 User is offline   akhare 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,226
  • Joined: 2005-September-04
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2012-May-07, 15:41

Played it for a few years as part of a FP system.

Nothing much to add to what's been already said.

Basically, 2 = p/c; 2N = strong ask. Over their X, P showed willingness to play 2-X; XX asked for opener's major and 2M was TP. Of course, other variations of P / XX are possible, but that's what we played and it worked quite well.

The situation you may want to discuss is X over 2 - (2M). In our case, we played it as co-operative and opener would P holding holding M and takeout to OM or 3m otherwise.

We also played a 3D invite which was similar to Richard's scheme and I can dredge the details if desired.

Edit:

Over the P over 2D - (X), we played that opener's XX showed H+C, 2H showed the majors and 2S showed S+C.

Also, over 2D:

3D: Invite with both majors
3H: P/C with both majors
3S: S+minor; pass or correct
4D: Asking for major
4C/4M: TP
foobar on BBO
1

#11 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,945
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2012-May-07, 18:10

View Postnigel_k, on 2012-May-07, 14:08, said:

After 2-2:

2: Spades and a minor
2NT: Hearts and a minor, minimum
3/: Hearts and the bid minor, maximum
3: Majors, minimum
3NT: Majors, maximum

If you give up the ability to play 2, you can switch it around to right-side more often. There is enough space to do everything, and some left over.


No this is poor. 2H is pass or correct.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#12 User is offline   nigel_k 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,196
  • Joined: 2009-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wellington, NZ

Posted 2012-May-07, 18:16

View Posthrothgar, on 2012-May-07, 14:11, said:

Never heard of anyone playing 2H as anything other than pass or correct

Generally there is a playable spot other than 2 - possibly in 2 if opener has both majors or at the three level. Sometimes opponents are bidding spades anyway on the hands where we want to play exactly 2. And if spades is their suit, it can be useful for responder to start with 2 pass or correct rather than 2.

But the main reason is the two extra steps in constructive auctions which is a big gain. Responder tends to want to investigate game more often opposite Wilkosz than opposite a weak two, and they can do this a lot more confidently if there is a way to stop in three of a minor when opener is minimum or unsuitable.
0

#13 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,945
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2012-May-08, 01:19

This is Matula's scheme.

Responses: Pass = a) found me diamonds, pd! b) hope you got diamonds, pd! c) tactical (if 4th seat doubles, opener: Pass = D, XX = S-H, 2M = M-C) 2H = p/c, 2+H
2S = p/c, usu. 3+S unless 1H-2S
2N = strong relay
3C = nat NF
3D = invite+, support for both majors
3H = preempt, p/c
3S = preempt, support for spades and both minors, short hearts
3N = to play
4D = asks pd to bid major
4C/4H/4S = natural

2D-2H- Pass = 5+H, normal hand 2S = S + m 2N = nat to play 3C = p/c for m
2N = 6S-5H, maximum 3m = 6m-5H, maximum 3H = 6H-5other, maximum 2D-2S- Pass = 5+S, normal hand 2N = 5S-6m max (3m p/c) 3H = 5S-6H max 3S = 6S-5H max 2D-2N- 3C = C + M 3D = GF relay, asks for major (then 4oM = to play) 3M = p/c (may go to game if oM bid) 4C = invite 3D = D + H 3H = sets H, demands cues 3S/4C = cue for D 4D = invite 4H/4S = to play 3H = H + S 3S = sets S, demands cues 4m = cue for H 4H/4S = to play 3S = S + D 4C = cue for S 4D = sets D, demands cues 4H/S = to play 2D-3D- 3M = minimum 4M = maximum

INTERFERENCE: 2D-(X)- Pass = diamond tolerance or better, could be waiting to penalize (later X penalty) Pass = diamond XX = H-S 2M = M-C XX = asks for cheapest major 2H = H+other (now 2S is further p/c) 2S = S+minor (now 3C is p/c) 2M = natural, to play, no matter what 2N = good 3-suiter that wants to compete at 3 level (bid cheapest suit) higher = as if no double 2D-(2M)- X = competitive, p/c Pass = decent 5+ cards in their suit 2S = denies 5H (or could be Jxxxx hearts), shows 5S 2N = nat invite 3C = p/c 2N = 5 bad in their suit, side minor 2N = minor-suited take-out, usu. with 4-crds in enemy suit 3m = natural 3H = both majors (now Pass/3S to play) 3m/3oM = natural, NF 3 cue = asks for stopper, usu. with long running minor 2D-(2N natural)- X = penalty 3C = p/c 3D/4D = asks pd to bid major 3M/4C = natural 3N = asks pd to bid cheapest suit at 4-level 2D-(3m)- X = pen 3H = p/c for major 4C = slammish cue, asks bid major 4D = request bid major

Frederick, have you tried Tutti Frutti? That is even more fun.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#14 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,474
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2012-May-09, 09:10

I wonder, what do you do with the following hand?


I guess partner has +, so at first sight I'd just bid 2 and pass his 3m rebid. However, what if he has + some other suit? We can easily miss a laydown game.
Even if you don't think this hand is worth inviting, just pretend it's a little bit stronger (but keep the distribution intact).

Yesterday I had a similar hand and Wilkosz gave us a cold top because it rightsided the contract :D
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#15 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,474
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2012-May-09, 09:21

View Postthe hog, on 2012-May-08, 01:19, said:

Frederick, have you tried Tutti Frutti? That is even more fun.

Thanks a lot for this scheme!

I won't play Tutti Frutti because I just want my 2M openings natural. We've been playing minimulti with 2 = 5-5 +other and 2 = 5-5 +m for several years now, and I thought: "lets swap things around and see how it goes".
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#16 User is offline   mgoetze 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,422
  • Joined: 2005-January-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cologne, Germany
  • Interests:Sleeping, Eating

Posted 2012-May-09, 10:24

View PostFree, on 2012-May-09, 09:10, said:

We can easily miss a laydown game.

That's OK, your opponents will be missing their laydown game too.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
0

#17 User is offline   Jboling 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 55
  • Joined: 2005-October-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Finland

Posted 2012-May-11, 12:23

When I played Wilkosz according Matulas scheme given above, I changed 3 to threesuited invite with short spades, because I thought it was missing from the scheme. With a weak hand with long clubs, we passed and corrected to 3 if it was doubled. The responses to 3 were
pass/3/3 = to play (typically with spades as the other suit)
4m = m+, good hand, reinvite
4 = to play
4NT = both minors
5m = to play (typically m+ with weak spades).
0

#18 User is offline   benlessard 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,950
  • Joined: 2006-January-07
  • Location:Montreal Canada
  • Interests:All games. i really mean all of them.

Posted 2012-May-12, 05:27

Using 3C as pass or correct make sense imo. With both M opener return to 3H and you can bid game if you have a good 41?? or 14??. Note that I have no real experience with W2d.
Wank comments on a ATB

"obviously north miscounted his cards and his points, whereas south only miscounted his cards"
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users