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Yet another rebid question

#1 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-May-03, 04:58


"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#2 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2012-May-03, 05:43

2??
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#3 User is offline   dkham 

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Posted 2012-May-03, 06:22

I think 2 here shows 12-17.

Assuming your 1NT is 15-17, I'm guessing I didn't open 1NT as the hand is too unbalanced. But if I didn't open 1NT just because the hand is too strong, maybe I should bid 2NT now. If I'm going to overbid though I prefer 3.
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#4 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-May-03, 07:33

2C .... you are a tad shy for either a GF, SJS of 3C ... or a balanced 2NT-jump ( EDIT: not to mention the lack of a stop in the unbid Major ) .

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2012-May-04, 09:36

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( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

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#5 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-May-03, 09:45

As you didn't want to open this 1n, you have to bid 2 now.
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#6 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-May-03, 11:04

2C.
One good treatment which Italians play is for it to be "almost forcing" which means you only pass with crap (5-7) and both 2D and 3C (and even 3D to extent) are just bids to keep the ball rolling while 2H is invite+ relay after which 2S is any minimum and others are GF.

This is a bit complicated and surely not standard but this sequence is big pain in the ass in purely standard methods.
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#7 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-May-03, 21:11

View Postjillybean, on 2012-May-03, 09:45, said:

As you didn't want to open this 1n, you have to bid 2 now.

nor should you. It's too strong for 1n and too shapely...there are 54 hands one will open 1N...say 2=4=5=2 or 2=2=4=5 in range, but not with a hand that clearly values at more than 17 for notrump purposes.

Over 1, either 2 or 2n is acceptable, but over 1, there is only 2. Anyone who jumpshifts doesn't understand the game, imo.
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#8 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2012-May-04, 04:36

What game are you going to miss if you bid 2C and partner passes? None that I can think of, hence 2C is right.
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#9 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-May-04, 05:31

It seems to me that you could miss all of 3NT, 4S or 5C on a bad day, hence, your argument is wrong.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#10 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2012-May-04, 06:36

Playing a SNT, I like this seq to be forcing (3C = inv+ spl; 2D as weak bailout); playing a WNT, I like this seq to be forcing (K-Sish; 2D = weak bailout). And WTP? Partner knows I can have this much even if we're playing SA. Doesn't s/he?
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#11 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-May-04, 08:14

View Posthan, on 2012-May-04, 05:31, said:

It seems to me that you could miss all of 3NT, 4S or 5C on a bad day, hence, your argument is wrong.

I agree that the argumet was wrong...we will (tho rarely, imo) miss some games by 2. But do you agree with the result, while disagreeing with the argument?
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#12 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2012-May-04, 09:10

View Postmikeh, on 2012-May-03, 21:11, said:

Over 1, either 2 or 2n is acceptable, but over 1, there is only 2.


Could you explain this one to me. I'm missing something.
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#13 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-May-04, 09:18

View Postbroze, on 2012-May-04, 09:10, said:

Could you explain this one to me. I'm missing something.

If partner had responded 1, the suit we don't stop, then I'd take no exception to opener bidding 2N. The hand definitely values above 1N, and we would do it automatically with 3=2=5=3 shape...Axx xx AKQxx KJx is too much for my 15-17 1N range.

I would also understand 2 (tho I prefer 2N). However, with xx in hearts, I have no interest in or liking for bidding 2N over 1. Since 3 is, imo, a gross overbid (I would hate doing it with Ax xx AKQxx AJxx, but would because I hate the alternatives even more), we are left with 2, hoping that partner can bid again...tho if he bids 2, I'm reluctantly done.
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#14 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-May-04, 11:24

View Posthan, on 2012-May-04, 05:31, said:

It seems to me that you could miss all of 3NT, 4S or 5C on a bad day, hence, your argument is wrong.

I can construct a hand where we'd miss 3NT or 4: Kxxxx QJ10x x Q10x or xxxxxx Axx x Qxx. But 5?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#15 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2012-May-05, 04:38

1D followed by 2C is clear cut for me. Opening 1Nt is 2nd best, I hate opening 1D and rebid 2Nt without the stopper.

Imo you are more likely to go down in 2Nt than to bid 2C and miss a game.
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#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-May-05, 05:50

Depends a bit on teh frequency partner would pass 1. If 1 can´t be bid on junk I am more inclined to rebid 2NT, for the typical response structure from the forums I´d say 2 is best. The one bid I would never do is 3, but 1NT opening as well as 2 and 2NT rebid all seem close.
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#17 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-May-05, 14:07

View Postmikeh, on 2012-May-04, 09:18, said:

.... we are left with 2, hoping that partner can bid again...tho if he bids 2, I'm reluctantly done.

Do you have to be done? 2H, now, would seem to be the appropriate noise. With extras like this and 1-3 in the majors we could try 2NT; with extras like these and 3-1 in majors 2S would happen. With the failure to open NT (correct), and the inability to rebid 2NT...this hand is the only one remaining which would bid 2H now.

For clarification:
1D-1S
2C-2D (then, rather than reluctantly passing)
2H.....is the situation I am talking about
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#18 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-May-05, 14:14

View Posthan, on 2012-May-04, 05:31, said:

It seems to me that you could miss all of 3NT, 4S or 5C on a bad day, hence, your argument is wrong.


It also seems that you will frequently go down in game on a completely normal day when partner is about to pass 2.
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#19 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-May-05, 14:51

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-May-05, 14:07, said:

Do you have to be done? 2H, now, would seem to be the appropriate noise. With extras like this and 1-3 in the majors we could try 2NT; with extras like these and 3-1 in majors 2S would happen. With the failure to open NT (correct), and the inability to rebid 2NT...this hand is the only one remaining which would bid 2H now.

For clarification:
1D-1S
2C-2D (then, rather than reluctantly passing)
2H.....is the situation I am talking about

Yes, passing 2 does seem a rather extreme position. If I had to choose between that and a game-force, I'd choose the game-force, but luckily we don't have to choose either.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#20 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-May-07, 08:06

I am quite impressed that this thread, which could easily have been posted as a unanimous poll, has managed to reach 20 posts. Perhaps I should ask what to open playing SAYC with KJxx/AJx/KJx/KJx and see if it generates equally as much interest!
(-: Zel :-)
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