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GNT ATB #3

#1 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 21:31


Aaron Jones Unit 557

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#2 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 21:38

North 100% but if it had worked he would have been a hero :)
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

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#3 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 21:48

View Postjillybean, on 2012-April-29, 21:38, said:

North 100% but if it had worked he would have been a hero :)


3nt makes 5, 1, 1, 2), but 6 is sooo much better... You can't blame north, so the blame, if any, has to go to south.
--Ben--

#4 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 21:52

Right! I've seen too many hands this week and overlooked the stopper
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#5 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 22:18

You could def blame north, you might argue having shown no ace or king he has a standout 3S bid over 2N, but it might depend on your methods. Surely that should show a minor 2 suiter though?
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#6 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 23:47

Maybe its a style matter but I dont like 2Nt offshape & with positionnal stopper when I can make a forcing pass. Partner can easily have Qxx in H. Even Jxx will make a difference if partner play the contract.
Wank comments on a ATB

"obviously north miscounted his cards and his points, whereas south only miscounted his cards"
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#7 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2012-April-30, 00:30

I like minor suit stayman, partner got me to agree to 3S as a relay to 3NT to show either single minor slam interest, or both minor interest. This treatment doesn't bode well for the 64 minor hands. At the other table it went 2C 2D 2NT 3S 4C 5C 6C uninterrupted. I bid 2NT with the south cards with the intent of playing 2NT opposite a total bust (likely for 8 tricks opposite a random J somewhere) it'd give us a chance to reach a spade contract (was worried about 2C 2H 3C 3D ?). This was the one board out of 48 where I thought I'd made an actual error by bidding 2NT.
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#8 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-April-30, 00:46

wow one error out of 48 and you miss a perfect fit 6c wow

and it is really pards fault.




This was the one board out of 48 where I thought I'd made an actual error by bidding 2NT.
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#9 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2012-April-30, 00:53

View Postmike777, on 2012-April-30, 00:46, said:

wow one error out of 48 and you miss a perfect fit 6c wow

and it is really pards fault.




This was the one board out of 48 where I thought I'd made an actual error by bidding 2NT.


Is there a point to this post?

Would u like me to post the complete records of our 48 hands and what I did with each holding in each spot? At our table my partner and I were responsible for 4 dbl digit losses. this hand, blown defense by partner, our opp. reaching 6D with

AQxx
Qxx
QJ10x
xx

opposite

xx
Ax
K9xx
AKQ10x

And a hand I psyched 2S w/r after 1NT p 2D holding Jxxxxx xx xx xxx where we were in 4S x -3, and our teammates were in 6H -1

Its extremely frustrating to play well and lose because you can't control the other table. I'm owning up to 2NT being a bad bid, and gave my reasons why I bid it.
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#10 User is offline   frank0 

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Posted 2012-April-30, 01:13

I think it's the issue of whether N is willing to make a slam try ( the actual bid depends on your method). 22-24HCP is about 4 loser and N get an about 8.5 loser hand so slam is possible if you can find a big fit(like a fit here).

But as usual it's always easier to say after you see both hand. The psychological barrier always make people slightly under-evaluate weak hand vs. partner's strong hand. I would probably also bid 3N if I'm at the table.




By the way just noticed the X, what's XX and pass by South mean?
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#11 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-April-30, 18:18

what's the rush to bid 2nt once east doubles? he's got no positional cards. pass and let north bid something. admittedly this might not help much.
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#12 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2012-April-30, 22:47

I agree with wank, no rush to bid 2nt when you can pass, suggesting a balanced hand without a great heart stopper.
Disclaimer: this post is not intended to offend anyone who spews constant drivel. --PhilKing
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#13 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-May-01, 03:51

These strong, control rich 4M5m hands have a huge amount of playing strength a good fit. Much more than partner can expect for a 23-24 NT. If you choose to show these hands as balanced, then you are taking a gamble. Why not bid 3c, then spades over what partner bids. You cannot really be wrong siding anything, unless partner has QJ tight in hearts or something, and you can always bid 3N later. If nothing else partner will bid it if he has no good fit.
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#14 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-May-01, 07:53

Eventho difficult to show his 6-4 minor hand, Responder needs to whip out their system for the minors over 2NT ( from the May 2006 ACBL Bulletin ) mainly because he is worried about his -shortness in a 3NT contract:

2NT - 3S! ( forces 3NT )
3NT! - 4S! ( showing 5-5 in the minors w/-shortness )
??
Opener replies 6 Ace-RKC as if it were "asked" , but since doesn't know how to show SIX key cards, he just blasts:
6C
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#15 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2012-May-01, 09:11

View Postphil_20686, on 2012-May-01, 03:51, said:

These strong, control rich 4M5m hands have a huge amount of playing strength a good fit. Much more than partner can expect for a 23-24 NT. If you choose to show these hands as balanced, then you are taking a gamble. Why not bid 3c, then spades over what partner bids. You cannot really be wrong siding anything, unless partner has QJ tight in hearts or something, and you can always bid 3N later. If nothing else partner will bid it if he has no good fit.


3C followed by 3S seems to me to suggest a major problem in hearts. Alot of times 3NT will be the best spot here, and I wont get there taking that route. It just puts too much strain on partner, give him Jxx 10xx 98xxx Qx instead and now 3NT is cold, and nothing else has a prayer.
Aaron Jones Unit 557

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#16 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-May-01, 10:18

View Postphil_20686, on 2012-May-01, 03:51, said:

These strong, control rich 4M5m hands have a huge amount of playing strength a good fit. Much more than partner can expect for a 23-24 NT. If you choose to show these hands as balanced, then you are taking a gamble. Why not bid 3c, then spades over what partner bids. You cannot really be wrong siding anything, unless partner has QJ tight in hearts or something, and you can always bid 3N later. If nothing else partner will bid it if he has no good fit.

In this case you have no problem as partner may well splinter 4 over 3.
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#17 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2012-May-01, 10:25

3 by North seems clear; Opener surely can bid 3NT to decline anything minor-oriented if he wants?

Opener might also pass, I agree, but 2NT actually worked out better.
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#18 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 06:18

I agree with cherdano, opener should pass and see what happens. Probably here partner would bid 3D, after which you can bid 3NT. Now you've painted a much clearer picture of your hand and partner might bid 4C.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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