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#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 01:49



new partnership; inverted minors, criss cross, wjs.
Can you find anything intelligent creative (see below) to do here?
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

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#2 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 01:51

3D for now. This is forcing. I might try 4D after 3nt too and see where that gets me.
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#3 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 06:46

View Postjillybean, on 2012-April-29, 01:49, said:

inverted minors, criss cross

Uhm, these conventions are mutually exclusive?

Anyway I agree with 3 now.
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#4 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 06:58

In Texas when I learned to play bridge, inverted minors as a GF, and criss cross as a LR was quite common.

3D is clearly forcing since you started with a cuebid. If you had an inv diamond hand, you would bid 3D over 1S. That said, it probably depends on the level of your partner whether you should risk this or not.
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#5 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 07:30

If you bid 3D that is where you would play so you have to come up with something else.

And yes, inverted GF, criss cross LR - is that not standard, why would you want 2 gf raises?
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#6 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 07:42

View Postjillybean, on 2012-April-29, 07:30, said:

If you bid 3D that is where you would play so you have to come up with somethingsomeone else.

FYP.

Quote

And yes, inverted GF, criss cross LR - is that not standard, why would you want 2 gf raises?

As far as I'm concerned, "inverted minors" means that you invert the so-called standard meanings of e.g. 1-2 and 1-3, which leaves you playing 1-2 as 10+ (i.e. not game force) and 1-3 as 6-9. "Criss-cross raises" means that you are playing e.g. 1-2 as GF, 1-3 as 10-11 and 1-3 as 6-9. I have never heard of anyone saying "criss cross" and meaning that they play 1-2 as 6-9, 1-3 as 10-11 and 1-3 as 12+, though I suppose it is theoretically possible.
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#7 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 07:59

It isn't standard to play them both, I think. Doesn't surprise me Justin learned it in Texas. It's part of Romex, and there's quite a few Romex players down there, I hear. I did learn criss cross first as GF (without inverted minors). I think that's in one of Barbara Seagram's "25 conventions" books.

I like playing both, although one of the better players here hates it because she feels the criss-cross 3 takes up too much room. :ph34r:
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#8 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 08:04

Ok let's not get hung up on names of treatments. Where I'm from "inverted minors" means 1m:2m is GF and "criss cross" 1:2 & 1:3 is a LR.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#9 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 08:39

<shrug>
--------------------
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
Factor in Alzheimers, and I can not recall a bad result from aggessive action in this situation. -- Aguahombre
When I look through the hand records after a club evening, the boards I didn't play are always the ones where I would have done great. -- Cherdano
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#10 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 09:08

Let's try this again



new partnership; 1m:2m gf, 1:2 and 1:3 LR, wjs
If you bid 3 partner will pass.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#11 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 10:03

3 is forcing and I would still bid 4.

do you play walsh?
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#12 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 10:27

View Postjillybean, on 2012-April-29, 09:08, said:

Let's try this again



new partnership; 1m:2m gf, 1:2 and 1:3 LR, wjs
If you bid 3 partner will pass.


before we can proceed what would
1c p 1d p
1h 1s 3d have meant???? if that is invitational
then the cue bid must make the sequence of bidding 3d
after 2s gf cant have a system with two or more
bids meaning the same thing:) what p does not bid is
just as important as what p bids.
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#13 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 11:05

View PostFluffy, on 2012-April-29, 10:03, said:

3 is forcing and I would still bid 4.

do you play walsh?

No, partner bids up the line.


View Postgszes, on 2012-April-29, 10:27, said:

before we can proceed what would
1c p 1d p
1h 1s 3d have meant???? if that is invitational
then the cue bid must make the sequence of bidding 3d
after 2s gf cant have a system with two or more
bids meaning the same thing:) what p does not bid is
just as important as what p bids.

I agree that 3 must be forcing but it isn't here, this partner is not a bbf'er :)
I know it's an impossible auction/question but this is what you are faced with when
you play with pickup partners and you have to make the best of it, or stop playing.

This is apparently called "doing your time".
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#14 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 11:07

Hi,

if you fear, that 3D gets pssed out, you can bid 4D.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#15 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 11:10

If you bid 4 partner will bid 5
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#16 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 15:44

View Postjillybean, on 2012-April-29, 11:05, said:

I know it's an impossible auction/question but this is what you are faced with when
you play with pickup partners and you have to make the best of it, or stop playing.

No I don't. :P

I'll leave it to professionals to try and maximize their results playing with hopeless partners. I prefer to keep playing bridge and if partner screws up, that's not my fault. You don't have to be a BBFer to know that 3 is forcing.
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#17 User is offline   xcurt 

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Posted 2012-April-29, 20:16

Yes 3D is forcing everywhere, but I would have bid 4D over 2NT. Partner is not going to cooperate otherwise, not enough diamonds in his hand. I will bite now, 5S, trying to elicit a 6C cue.
"It is not enough to be a good player. You must also play well." -- Tarrasch
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#18 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2012-April-30, 15:33

Way off topic (because I'd bid 3 and expect it to be 100% forcing after 2, so I'm out of this game):

Where I learned 2/1, 1m-2m was LR+, criss-cross was the "single raise", and 1m-3m was "unless you only need my minor suit for tricks and are sure you can set them up, don't bid 3NT" 0-6ish.

I'm assuming that the mention of criss-cross was just to preempt the "2 is a strong jump shift, why don't you make it?" and the comments about what it actually means (and you don't have) were just a sidelight.
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#19 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-30, 18:05

View Postmycroft, on 2012-April-30, 15:33, said:

Way off topic (because I'd bid 3 and expect it to be 100% forcing after 2, so I'm out of this game):

Where I learned 2/1, 1m-2m was LR+, criss-cross was the "single raise", and 1m-3m was "unless you only need my minor suit for tricks and are sure you can set them up, don't bid 3NT" 0-6ish.

That's odd! and is why it is always important to dig deeper and discover the nuances rather than simply agree to play "name of convention"

View Postmycroft, on 2012-April-30, 15:33, said:

I'm assuming that the mention of criss-cross was just to preempt the "2 is a strong jump shift, why don't you make it?" and the comments about what it actually means (and you don't have) were just a sidelight.

Yes, but it back fired.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#20 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2012-April-30, 19:55

er, i skipped some posts, but if partner passes 3 then we've discovered the problem on this hand! this bid is forcing; problem solved!
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