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Is 1NT for takeout a green/red or brown sticker system? ABF systems classification question

#1 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 21:04

Simple enough question: I play an overcall of 1NT as a light three suited takeout (8-14). What sticker does that make my system?

Is that a brown sticker treatment?

ABF System regulations are here: http://www.abf.com.a...ystemRegs11.pdf

I had just blithely assumed that it was OK because it's like a takeout double, but I may be quite wrong on this.
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#2 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 23:17

Over here, it's General Convention Chart, which means it can be played in any game.
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#3 User is offline   campboy 

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Posted 2012-April-27, 04:26

It looks like brown sticker unless you have a slightly tighter definition. (1H) 1NT as a three-suited takeout guaranteeing four spades would be ok.
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#4 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-27, 06:00

First of all: "brown sticker" never applies to a system, but only to individual treatments. Your system is classified as green, blue, red or yellow, and it may or may not contain brown sticker conventions.

Secondly, a brown sticker can only apply to (a) an opening bid of two clubs through three spades, (b) an overcall of a natural opening bid of one of a suit
or (c) any weak two-suited bid (whether it be an overcall, an opening bid or a response) at the two or three level. A 1NT overcall is obviously none of the above.
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#5 User is offline   mrdct 

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Posted 2012-April-27, 06:06

View PostCthulhu D, on 2012-April-26, 21:04, said:

Simple enough question: I play an overcall of 1NT as a light three suited takeout (8-14). What sticker does that make my system?

ABF System regulations are here: http://www.abf.com.a...ystemRegs11.pdf

I had just blithely assumed that it was OK because it's like a takeout double, but I may be quite wrong on this.

The classification of your system as green, blue, red or yellow is based solely on the meanings of your one-level openings, so the use of this 1NT overcall treatment is of no relevance to the system classification; although you would be required to prealert it.

It doesn't fit the definition of a brown sticker convention so you would be free to play it any ABF or WBF event subject to meeting the prevailing disclosure requirements.
Disclaimer: The above post may be a half-baked sarcastic rant intended to stimulate discussion and it does not necessarily coincide with my own views on this topic.
I bidding the suit below the suit I'm actually showing not to be described as a "transfer" for the benefit of people unfamiliar with the concept of a transfer
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#6 User is offline   mrdct 

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Posted 2012-April-27, 06:07

View Postcampboy, on 2012-April-27, 04:26, said:

It looks like brown sticker unless you have a slightly tighter definition. (1H) 1NT as a three-suited takeout guaranteeing four spades would be ok.

No-Trumps is not a "suit" for the purposes of the Brown Sticker definition.
Disclaimer: The above post may be a half-baked sarcastic rant intended to stimulate discussion and it does not necessarily coincide with my own views on this topic.
I bidding the suit below the suit I'm actually showing not to be described as a "transfer" for the benefit of people unfamiliar with the concept of a transfer
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#7 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2012-April-27, 08:17

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-April-27, 06:00, said:

Secondly, a brown sticker can only apply to (a) an opening bid of two clubs through three spades, (b) an overcall of a natural opening bid of one of a suit
or (c) any weak two-suited bid (whether it be an overcall, an opening bid or a response) at the two or three level. A 1NT overcall is obviously none of the above.


I must be missing something; it looks like b) to me.
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#8 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2012-April-27, 09:00

View PostVampyr, on 2012-April-27, 08:17, said:

I must be missing something; it looks like b) to me.


Yeah, isn't it an overcall of one of a suit? Though that said.. isn't a takeout double also such a call?
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#9 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-27, 09:24

View PostVampyr, on 2012-April-27, 08:17, said:

I must be missing something; it looks like b) to me.

As I was rushing to get the above post out the door it seemed to me to mean that the overcall must be 1, 1 or 1 but that is of course silly. So yes, you are probably right.
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#10 User is offline   campboy 

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Posted 2012-April-27, 10:16

Natural NT overcalls are listed as an exception to b) so I infer that artificial NT overcalls are included.

In normal usage, "overcall" means a bid over RHO's bid, despite the name ("overbid" being something else entirely). So a double is not included any more than a pass would be.
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