[Hanoi5]

Teams, both:

♠98x
♥xxx
♦Axxx
♣xxx

2♣-2♦
2♠-???

3♠ or 4♠?

To clarify, 2♣ is the only game-forcing opening in the system. 2♦ denies a good 5-card Major or good 6-card minor or 9-13 with 3 controls. 2♠ is natural.
(would there be a difference if 3♠ sets the trump suit or shows 4♠+5 or more ♦?).

[Zelandakh]

3♠. 4♠ here traditionally denies any ace and many play it as denying even more than that.

[32519]

Hanoi5, on 2012-April-22, 21:48, said:

Teams, both:

♠98x
♥xxx
♦Axxx
♣xxx

2♣-2♦
2♠-???

3♠ or 4♠?

To clarify, 2♣ is the only game-forcing opening in the system. 2♦ denies a good 5-card Major or good 6-card minor or 9-13 with 3 controls. 2♠ is natural.
(would there be a difference if 3♠ sets the trump suit or shows 4♠+5 or more ♦?).

Why have you posted this here? In the end everything comes down to your system agreements. From your post above it appears as though you have proper agreements. So its a simple thing to consult your notes.

I can understand 2/1 players having an argument about this hand. Why? In 2/1, 2♦ is the waiting bid and 2♥ is the negative bid (0-5 HCP in Queens and Jacks). After a negative response the auction is forcing to a) 2NT, b) 3 of openers major, or c) 4 of openers minor. It all depends on openers second bid. After 2♦ as waiting, the auction is 100% game forcing.

2/1 players will probably fight about the following: Responder has only 4 HCP (the ♦A). Now the response doesn’t fall into either 2♦ or 2♥.

[manudude03]

32519, on 2012-April-23, 08:46, said:

Why have you posted this here? In the end everything comes down to your system agreements. From your post above it appears as though you have proper agreements. So its a simple thing to consult your notes.

I can understand 2/1 players having an argument about this hand. Why? In 2/1, 2♦ is the waiting bid and 2♥ is the negative bid (0-5 HCP in Queens and Jacks). After a negative response the auction is forcing to a) 2NT, b) 3 of openers major, or c) 4 of openers minor. It all depends on openers second bid. After 2♦ as waiting, the auction is 100% game forcing.

2/1 players will probably fight about the following: Responder has only 4 HCP (the ♦A). Now the response doesn’t fall into either 2♦ or 2♥.

First of all, 2♥ negative is far from standard, even though you will find a fair few pairs playing it. Also, what is the problem here, you don't have a 2♥ bid and 2♦ doesn't deny less than 6.

As for the OP, this is an easy 3♠ bid for me. Partner should not be getting overly exited just because you later cuebid 4♦, so at least let partner know you do have something useful.

[Gerben42]

In my agreement. 4♠ as I have already denied absolute garbage. Could be different for you, though.

[jdeegan]

I would bid 3♠. You are a dead minimum for the bid, but you do have an ace, and once in a great while that will be all partner needs for slam.

[pigpenz]

3♠ is good (ace or king )
4♠ should deny any aces or kings

[phil_20686]

I play double neg (2h) and I would still bid 3S now. If partner makes a courtesy cue I will sign off, if he makes a serious slam try I will cue my ace. I basically never sign off. If I do its because I lack controls. I can splinter here too, so I would usually do that with a hand with a trump honour and no other controls except a singleton. I generally do not cue shortage on the first round after a 2c opener starts cueing. Not unless I have buckets of a trumps, as partner can often risk the five level.

Still, my style makes sense only if you are v conservative in your 2c openers. I would be 100% to drive a slam with two aces, and if it wasnt cold partner is not within our agreements. Most of the time when partner has an ace or a king he will drive to the 5 level. Normally when we open 2C with a single suiter we are denying an outside shortage, particularly in a major, as i have a variety of auto splinter sequences available after 1M opener, and I have yet to be passed out at the one level with a seven card suit.

[Fluffy]

3♠ under your agreements, an ace is a big card.

[Fluffy]

32519, on 2012-April-23, 08:46, said:

Why have you posted this here?

Because it belongs here.

[Vampyr]

32519, on 2012-April-23, 08:46, said:

2/1 players will probably fight about the following: Responder has only 4 HCP (the ♦A). Now the response doesn’t fall into either 2♦ or 2♥.

For the minority of 2/1 players who do play Roth, the 2♥ response denies an A or K.