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4th suit auction

#1 User is offline   gareth 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 03:45


1S showed an unbalanced hand. There should be plenty of space for a nice auction to the top spot, how do you think the bidding should go?

I don't think 3C now shows clubs, just a hand with no clear direction. 3C the previous round was not possible, it was a splinter raise of spades. No special ace asking agreements available, just vanilla 0314 RKCB.
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#2 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 04:45

Presuming that two clubs is game forcing, I think three clubs now should show clubs. You have already made a call that shows no clear direction, no need to take up so much space to say it again.

North now has a fairly easy three diamonds call and South raises (as 4NT probably natural). If South is able to bid keycard then reaching seven diamonds seems likely. If North bids it, then he'll be guessing.
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#3 User is offline   gareth 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 05:32

View Postpaulg, on 2012-April-26, 04:45, said:

Presuming that two clubs is game forcing, I think three clubs now should show clubs. You have already made a call that shows no clear direction, no need to take up so much space to say it again.

North now has a fairly easy three diamonds call and South raises (as 4NT probably natural). If South is able to bid keycard then reaching seven diamonds seems likely. If North bids it, then he'll be guessing.


Interesting, I thought that if South chooses 3C then North has a fairly easy 3H call (rather than 3D). It seems to me that North would still think hearts as a possible strain and that 3D might suggest 7.
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#4 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 05:59

Another popular way of playing is for repeating the 4th suit to show a half stopper. In that case you bid 2NT when you have real clubs. This clearly shows interest in contracts other than 3NT. The auction should then continue with a 3 bid from North, effectively returning to Paul's suggestion. What happens next depends alot on agreements. 4 may or not be Minorwood, and if not may either start a cue auction or merely ask if North will accept a slam try. With the OP agreements, 4 - 4NT - 5 - 7 seems reasonable.
(-: Zel :-)
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#5 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 06:09

you're right north should bid 3h over 3c but that would also confirm the 6th diamond - with 5 diamonds and a doubleton heart one would have bid 2h over 2c. south can now agree diamonds happily.
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#6 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 07:58

If it goes:
1D - 1H
1S - 2C!
2D - 3C
3H - 4D = does this really "agree Diam" ?
........... 3H "agreed Hts" eventho it must be only 2 cards ( and strongly suggests honor-doubleton ).
........... so 4D just looks like a cuebid for , denying both and controls.
................ which could be a hand like: x, A Q J x x, A x, Q J 10 x x

Actually, I would like 4D ( after 3H ) to show a double-fit, so I could use 4S! as 6Ace-kickback, but it is against my "rules".
Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

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#7 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 08:24

Couldn't 2 by North have just been a punt, say with 4252 or 4153 and no club stopper? I don't think he's promised the 6th diamond yet until he bids again.
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#8 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 08:36

View Postwank, on 2012-April-26, 06:09, said:

with 5 diamonds and a doubleton heart one would have bid 2h over 2c.

Really? I would take 2 for real support, i.e. 3 cards. Are you raising with 4351 to 2 last round, instead of showing your 4 card spade suit? Do you have some checkback after 2-2 to prevent responder with a 5 card minimum from just bidding 4?
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#9 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 08:39

View Postrbforster, on 2012-April-26, 08:24, said:

Couldn't 2 by North have just been a punt, say with 4252 or 4153 and no club stopper? I don't think he's promised the 6th diamond yet until he bids again.


I would take 2 as such, with 3 showing the 5-6.
Where there's ink there's squid Phil.
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#10 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 08:50

View PostPhil, on 2012-April-26, 08:39, said:

I would take 2 as such, with 3 showing the 5-6.

That's probably a good agreement. I was thinking about the various rebid options and it seemed like having 2 be the 5-6 was a very rare use for a cheap bid in this situation.
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#11 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2012-April-26, 12:59

Opener starts with 1 and then rebids 1 after a 1 response, and this is defined as showing an unbalanced hand, a good agreement IMO.

Responder then bids 2, GF and artificial.


Opener has already stated that he is unbalanced. If he had 4351 or 4360, I assume that he is not an idiot and would next bid 2. Failing to do that, we can eliminate that option.

If Opener rebids 2 at this point, he presumably has 5/6.

If Opener started with 4054, he would surely bid 3 at this point.

The only hand patterns left seem to be 4252 (if that is possible), 4153, or hands with six diamonds. However, the 2NT rebid has not been used, which seems to also cover some of this territory.

It seems to me, therefore, that Opener only have five diamonds when his clubs suck.

Assuming this, then I agree with Zelandakh that 3 really should be used (in theory) as a continuing notrump probe but 2NT as assured club values but extras and interest. Opener could then repeat his diamonds, and then a serries of nice calls should get this to the ideal contract, assuming an intelligent approach.
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