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Advancing an overcall... ...at the 5-level

Poll: Advancing an overcall... (20 member(s) have cast votes)

Call?

  1. Pass (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 5S (2 votes [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  3. 5NT (6 votes [30.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.00%

  4. 6C (3 votes [15.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.00%

  5. 6D (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 6H (9 votes [45.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 45.00%

  7. 7H (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 05:39


Your call?
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#2 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 06:45

It seems right to try for 7. If partner bids it is likely right.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#3 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 07:20

View Posthan, on 2012-April-21, 06:45, said:

It seems right to try for 7. If partner bids it is likely right.

OK, so, why do you think 5NT is the best way to try for 7?
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#4 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 07:37

I bid 6.
Would love 6 if it showed hearts agreed and source of tricks from diamonds.
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#5 User is offline   frank0 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 07:46

We want to know whether partner has full value for 5 and 1st round control in . I think 6 is right, showing fit with control(cannot pass and introduce suit at 6 level) with grand slam interested(otherwise why cue at 6 level) but lacking control(bypass 5). If partner thinks the same way partner will jump to 7 with a void/A.

If I knew from previous experience partner tends to think differently then I sign-off 6.
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#6 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 07:47

View Postjogs, on 2012-April-21, 07:37, said:

I bid 6.
Would love 6 if it showed hearts agreed and source of tricks from diamonds.

OK so what do you think a 6 bid here would look like, given that we failed to overcall 3 previously?
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#7 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 09:05

why do I think 5NT is the best try for 7? I am actually not sure.

5S is of course out, that should show a first round spade control.

6D sounds nice but I would never bid it undiscussed, partner will think I deny (at least) a first round club control.

Maybe if I had only 1 minor controlled I would bid that minor, so 5NT should show both? I don't know, but I plan to bid 5NT and 6D over 6C, 7H over 6D.

You could argue I need to bid 6S over 6D to suggest playing in diamonds. I don't think that I have enough diamonds to bid 7D myself, that would be misleading. But if partner is 0553, I'd sure want to play in diamonds.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#8 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 12:26

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-April-21, 07:47, said:

OK so what do you think a 6 bid here would look like, given that we failed to overcall 3 previously?


There should be zero chance we wish to declare in diamonds, since we didn't overcall. Therefore 6 is a Robson/Segal type fit non-jump. Got heart support and good diamonds. Interventor would now know Kx or Kxx of diamonds are powerful cards. 6 is a advance cue for grand. Does not deny the A.
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#9 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 12:30

5N for me also
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#10 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 13:52

View Postjogs, on 2012-April-21, 12:26, said:

There should be zero chance we wish to declare in diamonds, since we didn't overcall. Therefore 6 is a Robson/Segal type fit non-jump. Got heart support and good diamonds. Interventor would now know Kx or Kxx of diamonds are powerful cards. 6 is a advance cue for grand. Does not deny the A.

OK and, uh, that's not what you have?
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#11 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 17:21

1. _ AKJxxxxx Kxxx x

2. _ AKJxxxxx x Kxxx

I want to be in 7 opposite hand 1 but not with hand 2.

Mostly I'm bidding 6 because I don't have any partners who agree to play my style.
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#12 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 17:46

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-April-21, 07:47, said:

OK so what do you think a 6 bid here would look like, given that we failed to overcall 3 previously?

Yes 6 or any bid has to show
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#13 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 20:22

5n

dont see the benefit of either

6c p cant possibly cue bid 6d so we are left with 6h
6d p cant possibly bid 7h not being sure of club suit

5n shows a desire to raise to 6 and leave open exploration for 7
while denying spade control. It is virtually impossible for
you to be making this bid w/o 1st round control in both minors
since you can always bid 6c or 6d to show that control and deny
the other. Over 5n p can show a long minor if they have one.
If p bids 6c I will settle for 6h if p bids 6d I will bid
7h.
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#14 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 20:39

View Posthan, on 2012-April-21, 09:05, said:

But if partner is 0553, I'd sure want to get a new partner.

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#15 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 23:24

5 NT and then i will bid 6 over a 6 clubs and 7 over 6. Having not started with 5 pd knows i dont have A

Edit: was it imps ? Not that it matters to me but i was curious of the scores if it was mp, i bet 6 will still get a good score.
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Just overcall and let nature take it's course -PhilKing



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#16 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-April-21, 23:45

View Postjogs, on 2012-April-21, 17:21, said:

1. _ AKJxxxxx Kxxx x

2. _ AKJxxxxx x Kxxx

I want to be in 7 opposite hand 1 but not with hand 2.



Over 5 NT 1st hand bids 6, so thats easy

Second hand bids 6 and we now bid 6, i dont think he is bidding 7 with that. But i see your point that it is not clear what to bid over 5NT, shortness or longer suit with values.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity is boundless"
"Gosh given your bbf manner would love to see your teaching LOL if i was a novice i'd be running a million miles from you" - Eagles123
Disclaimer: this post is not intended to offend anyone who spews constant drivel. --PhilKing
Just overcall and let nature take it's course -PhilKing



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#17 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-22, 03:45

View PostMrAce, on 2012-April-21, 23:24, said:

Edit: was it imps ? Not that it matters to me but i was curious of the scores if it was mp, i bet 6 will still get a good score.

Actually it was a Team Match, I was the 2 opener. In my room the result was 5+2, in the other it was 6+1 (same start to bidding). South had A AKJT93 K9 K985.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#18 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2012-April-22, 04:35

View PostMrAce, on 2012-April-21, 23:45, said:

Over 5 NT 1st hand bids 6, so thats easy

Second hand bids 6 and we now bid 6, i dont think he is bidding 7 with that. But i see your point that it is not clear what to bid over 5NT, shortness or longer suit with values.


I'm convinced source of tricks is more valuable info than just controls. 5NT is a take control bid. 6 is a give info bid.

Change your hand.
1098 Q87 AQJ5 KQ2

This hand isn't worth a grand slam try. 3 1/2 controls. Still opposite the correct hand 7 may be cold.
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#19 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2012-April-22, 04:41

1098 Q87 AQJ5 A42

__ AKJ1053 K872 765

2 p 4 5
p 6 p 7
all pass

Only 11 tricks in hearts and 13 tricks in diamonds.
It would require lots of trust between the partnership to bid this grand.
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#20 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-22, 06:02

But if partner is 0553, I'd sure want to get a new partner.

With partners like mine, you learn to expect the unexpected.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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