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Force Point system. Have any of you heard about it?

#41 User is offline   Pavell 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 15:18

View PostZelandakh, on 2016-May-31, 03:09, said:

Especially for a system that can only be played in competitions that normal players will never see. FWiiW, Z-B played a FP system (Suspensor) in the 1991 BB and won a silver medal. Unfortunately they were forced to give it up before 1993 due to system regulations and switched to Polish Club instead. And that is really the issue. Most bidding theorists think that FP systems are optimal but noone thinks they are practical to play within the current regulations. I personally think it is a shame but that is not going to stop the RAs from continuing (effectively) to ban them from any serious usage.


Fp stands for Force Point, not for Forcing Pass :)


There are some new discovers about bridge game which will allow you to discover simultaneously by number and by kind all of partner's TOP Honors (A + K + Q) with 1 question 1 answer only. The calculations are for 7 grader.

The book will cost $16 ($12 on Holidays and all December), the Sysnotes cost $40 ($32 on Holidays and all December), the License for using Fp on International Tournament cost $10. You can bay all of them separate.

After the 3rd re-submission of the book, it will be in the market between 15 and 30 October 2016. You can find inside over 120 games, 2/3 of them with explicit explanations how to use Fp, for 1/3 of them you will see the bids only, and if you have read the book, you probably will explain then. If not, and you have difficulties, email the # of the game to pboev777@gmail.com, and you will receive the full explanations. Between 300-350 pages, 50 of the the System, the rest with games with full explanations.
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#42 User is offline   Pavell 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 15:20

View PostFluffy, on 2012-April-19, 08:34, said:

lol, the arguments look as stupid as those of web pages that want to teach you how to win at online blackjack.


Fp doesn't need any arguments, 1st read the book, then argue.

There are some new discovers about bridge game which will allow you to discover simultaneously by number and by kind all of partner's TOP Honors (A + K + Q) with 1 question 1 answer only. The calculations are for 7 grader.

The book will cost $16 ($12 on Holidays and all December), the Sysnotes cost $40 ($32 on Holidays and all December), the License for using Fp on International Tournament cost $10. You can bay all of them separate.

After the 3rd re-submission of the book, it will be in the market between 15 and 30 October 2016.

You can find inside over 120 games, 2/3 of them with explicit explanations how to use Fp, for 1/3 of them you will see the bids only, and if you have read the book, you probably will explain then. If not, and you have difficulties, email the # of the game to pboev777@gmail.com, and you will receive the full explanations. Between 300-350 pages, 50 of the the System, the rest with games with full explanations.
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
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#43 User is offline   Pavell 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 15:33

View Posthelene_t, on 2012-April-19, 08:26, said:

I recall this has been discussed here before but I can't find it. However, this external link works: www.bullbridge.com/Home_Page.php

It promises you that you can become a bidding expert in three days. They probably sell snake oil and anti-aging creams, too. I suggest you don't waste time on it.


http://bull-bridge.com is the current site, http://bullbridge.com is 15 years old site I rarely correct.
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#44 User is offline   Pavell 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 15:43

View PostThe_Badger, on 2016-August-25, 09:36, said:

Agree Vampyr,

The other consideration is how easy/difficult will it be to get approval to play it in tournaments? However, I'm all for new ideas and systems in bridge, as long as it doesn't make the game inaccessible to newer players.

Wei Precision was easy to learn and proved that new systems can be developed and used internationally by inexperienced teams, and get stunning results, though C C Wei sponsored and trained the teams initially.

And as I say, the proof is in the pudding [an old proverb - abbreviated] or, in the case, the bidding :)


Mama Mia ?!

Who said you have to buy a license? The license is ONLY for experienced Force Point Teams which wants to try the system on INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS !!!

And YES, I'm paying the players who entered Fp Team in BBO, starting with 6 month delay, if the showed results. I already have spent over $25,000 for such purposes.

Fp stands for Force Point, not for Forcing Pass, which is forbidden.

The 2016' Fp Evaluation Counting is already published here, how it is will be in the book, along with the complete system, check it before you buy the book with the whole system. No one is aware of that system, it is completely new: the Counting, the thinking, SCOR -SCOR Convention, The Asking for the exact number of the partner's contract tricks and the CPA (Control Points Asking) using new discovers about bridge game, which will allow you to discover simultaneously by number and by kind all of partner's TOP Honors (A + K + Q) with 1 question 1 answer only. The calculations are for 7 grader.

The book will cost $16 ($12 on Holidays and all December), the Sysnotes cost $40 ($32 on Holidays and all December), the License for using Fp on International Tournament cost $10. You can bay all of them separate.

After the 3rd re-submission of the book, it will be in the market between 15 and 30 October 2016.
Amazon, barnes & Nobel & the publishing company site: http;//Xlibris.com (then go to the bookstore)

You can find inside over 120 games, 2/3 of them with explicit explanations how to use Fp, for 1/3 of them you will see the bids only, and if you have read the book, you probably will explain then. If not, and you have difficulties, email the # of the game to pboev777@gmail.com, and you will receive the full explanations. Between 300-350 pages, 50 of the the System, the rest with games with full explanations.
ForcePoint Bidding Developer
http://bull-bridge.com
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#45 User is offline   Pavell 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 16:02

View Posthelene_t, on 2012-April-19, 08:26, said:

I recall this has been discussed here before but I can't find it. However, this external link works: www.bullbridge.com/Home_Page.php

It promises you that you can become a bidding expert in three days. They probably sell snake oil and anti-aging creams, too. I suggest you don't waste time on it.


I'm tired about the explanations about the snake oil and anti0adging cream.

Mama Mia ?!

Who said you have to buy a license? The license is ONLY for experienced Force Point Teams which wants to try the system on INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS !!!

And YES, I'm paying the players who entered Fp Team in BBO, starting with 6 month delay, if the showed results. I already have spent over $25,000 for such purposes.

Fp stands for Force Point, not for Forcing Pass, which is forbidden.

The 2016' Fp Evaluation Counting is already published here, how it is will be in the book, along with the complete system, check it before you buy the book with the whole system. No one is aware of that system, it is completely new: the Counting, the thinking, SCOR -SCOR Convention, The Asking for the exact number of the partner's contract tricks and the CPA (Control Points Asking) using new discovers about bridge game, which will allow you to discover simultaneously by number and by kind all of partner's TOP Honors (A + K + Q) with 1 question 1 answer only. The calculations are for 7 grader.

The book will cost $16 ($12 on Holidays and all December), the Sysnotes cost $40 ($32 on Holidays and all December), the License for using Fp on International Tournament cost $10. You can bay all of them separate.

After the 3rd re-submission of the book, it will be in the market between 15 and 30 October 2016.
Amazon, barnes & Nobel & the publishing company site: http;//Xlibris.com (then go to the bookstore)

You can find inside over 120 games, 2/3 of them with explicit explanations how to use Fp, for 1/3 of them you will see the bids only, and if you have read the book, you probably will explain then. If not, and you have difficulties, email the # of the game to pboev777@gmail.com, and you will receive the full explanations. Between 300-350 pages, 50 of the the System, the rest with games with full explanations.

And I will tell to you and the others only one thing: The Precision ,with all of its modernization is a laughing system compared to Force Point, 40 years ago, YES, it was the best, but now here is Fp with his 7 grader calculations, which unfortunately will kill all of the paid Bidding lessens around the world, but that's the life, it always is like that, sorry Experts.

Snake oil and anti-aging cream for your a.., sorry, for you. You probably are from Bulgarian origin, right, I know them very well, because I have leaved there til 45, that is their usual thinking and speaking. That's what they learned after the communists killed all of the Bulgarian Intellectuals 1944-1947. You know nothing, including anything about Force Point! Let's comment again after May 2017, when the world will know everything about Fp, ok ?

It is absolutely new. Give it some time snake.
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#46 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 16:12

I feel quite confident in saying that nobody is going to pay to play a system in an international tournament, almost regardless of how good it actually is. If anything, you should be paying them for playing the system giving it exposure (people playing the system on BBO is hardly noteworthy). Imagine how the bridge world would be if you had to pay Marty Bergen if you played any of the conventions he made, or (descendants of) Oswald Jacoby or Samuel Stayman if you played Transfers/Jacoby 2NT or stayman respectively.
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#47 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 18:22

I suggest that Instead of trying to market your book on BBO, you send copies and requests for reviews to the ACBL, EBU, Mr Bridge, The Bridge World etc.

Also, if players are using your system on BBO, you should let people here know so they can kibitz and see what it is all about. And what the results are like.

Finally, please supply username and password information for your web page. No one can even evaluate your system if they have no idea what it involves. Do you really think people will buy your with no information about what it contains?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#48 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 21:23

View PostPavell, on 2016-September-16, 15:33, said:

http://bull-bridge.com is the current site, http://bullbridge.com is 15 years old site I rarely correct.

Why then do you refer to the old site in your signature?
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#49 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2016-September-17, 09:12

I'm trying to figure out what SCOR-SCOR might look like over

1-2(GF relay).

Maybe

2 = 5S4+D
2 = 5S4+H
2 = 6 or 8 S, denies 4+ H (H is same rank as S)
...2N = relay
......2nd part of SCOR-SCOR:
......3 = 4+ C
......3 = 4+ D
......3N = 8 S, 1-suited
......other = 6 S, 1-suited?
2N = 7 S
...3 = relay
......3 = 4+ D
......3 = 4+ H
......4 = 4+ C
......other = 1-suited?
3 = 5S4+C
3 = ?
3 = 6S4+H or 8S4+H1

+ lots of relays?

1 "With 6 card suit you show your 5+ card Basic suit, then you show your side suits by 2nd part of scor-SCOR, thus informing your partner that you have 6 or 8 card suit, then you will show your 2nd longest suit naturally, revealing your exact shape, BUT if your side suits are RANK, you must immediately bid your 2nd longest suit by jump, despite that you will bid over the 6th step of SCOR-SCOR Convention! In this case, from 6th step and up, you will enter the Extended SCOR."
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#50 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-September-22, 07:36

View PostPavell, on 2016-September-16, 15:18, said:

Fp stands for Force Point, not for Forcing Pass :)

There are some new discovers about bridge game which will allow you to discover simultaneously by number and by kind all of partner's TOP Honors (A + K + Q) with 1 question 1 answer only. The calculations are for 7 grader.

Oh my, it gets worse. You are seriously trying to market your QP system here as something special? Yes, that is right, the A=3, K=2, Q=1 method is rather well known and there are a decent number of free and successful methods using QPs. Adam, a regular poster here, has a system based on QPs that is almost certainly far advanced from yours in terms of bidding theory and practice and he is more than willing to advise on his ideas for free when asked. There are also systems around that give a QP answer as the first response to a strong club opening. This is hardly a "new discovery". It might be new to you but BBF posters tend to be a little better informed. ;)
(-: Zel :-)
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#51 User is offline   Stefan_O 

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Posted 2016-September-23, 10:38

> A=3, K=2, Q=1

Yes, i played such system in the 1980'ies, where strong opener or responder could both initiate relay sequence and find out abt pds exact QPs and hand pattern.
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#52 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2016-September-23, 11:27

View PostStefan_O, on 2016-September-23, 10:38, said:

> A=3, K=2, Q=1

Yes, i played such system in the 1980'ies, where both strong opener or responder could initiate relay sequence and find out abt pds exact QPs and hand pattern.


Would you mind explaining briefly how it works?
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#53 User is offline   Stefan_O 

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Posted 2016-September-23, 17:34

View PostVampyr, on 2016-September-23, 11:27, said:

Would you mind explaining briefly how it works?


I sure wish I could give you the whole story in a bottle :)

Unfortunately, this was quite some years ago now, and it was my then pd who was the great designer behind this magic system...
I was one of few people who had the strong interest and enthusiasm required to study and learn such system (esp the relay-sequences)
-- while the system also kept changing from one week to the next :)

I still have some basic structure and concepts in the back of my head, of course...
will need to sit down and think if I can summarize them in a meaningful way.....

I remember this 3-2-1 scale, because it often gave you a very good picture when it came to slam-bidding, you could pinpoint the AKQ's in the weaker hand with high precision knowing the number of QPs.
And in response to a strong-opening, we would also use QPs to separate negative (like 1C-1D in precision) from positive hands, later specify the exact number of QPs if needed.
Other stages in the relays was first to find out about 4+majors in responders hand -- by transfer responses, of course! :) -- then classify distribution into balanced/unbalanced/two-suiter's, etc, then find the exact distribution and QPs.

In the original version (before such got banned) it was a strong-pass-opening system with a negative 1C-response, then followed up with 1D as strong relay.
While 1C in 1st and 2nd hand was the "fert" 0-X points opening, upon which responder with enough strength would start relays with 1D
and the continuations was then the same in both sequences.

Only to mention some random bits and pieces here... :)

Great fun, but all buried in the graveyard since long, I guess, because of all the restrictions around HUM, color-stickers, etc.
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#54 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2016-September-23, 17:38

View PostStefan_O, on 2016-September-23, 17:34, said:

I sure wish I could give you the whole story in a bottle :)

Unfortunately, this was quite some years ago now, and it was my then pd who was the great designer behind this magic system...
I was one of few people who had the strong interest and enthusiasm required to study and learn such system (esp the relay-sequences)
-- while the system also kept changing from one week to the next :)

I still have some basic structure and concepts in the back of my head, of course...
will need to sit down and think if I can summarize them in a meaningful way :)

I remember this 3-2-1 scale, because it often gave you a very good picture when it came to slam-bidding, you could pinpoint the AKQ's in the weaker hand with high precision knowing the number of QPs.
And in response to a strong-opening or relay-initiation by pd, we would also use QPs to separate negative (like 1C-1D in precision) from positive hands, later specify the exact number of QPs if needed.
Other stages in the relays was first to find out about 4+majors in responders hand -- by transfer responses, of course! :) -- then classify distribution into balanced/unbalanced/two-suiter's, etc, then find the exact distribution and QPs.

In the original version (before such got banned) it was a strong-pass-opening system with a negative 1C-response, then followed up with 1D as strong relay.
While 1C in 1st and 2nd hand was the "fert" 0-X points opening, upon which responder with enough strength would start relays with 1D
and the continuations was then the same in both sequences.

Only to mention some random bits and pieces here... :)

Great fun, but all buried in the graveyard since long, I guess, because of all the restrictions around HUM, color-stickers, etc.


This sounds like pretty standard denial cue bidding with an option for reverse relays
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#55 User is offline   Stefan_O 

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Posted 2016-September-23, 17:59

View Posthrothgar, on 2016-September-23, 17:38, said:

This sounds like pretty standard denial cue bidding with an option for reverse relays


Que? I didn't even mention cue-bidding :)
What do you mean?
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#56 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2016-September-23, 18:02

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=denial+cue+bid
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#57 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2016-September-23, 20:00

View PostStefan_O, on 2016-September-23, 17:59, said:

Que? I didn't even mention que-bidding :)
What do you mean?


I love the term que bidding. I don't know what it means, but I imagine that is what characterises the bids too!

What does QP stand for?
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#58 User is offline   Stefan_O 

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Posted 2016-September-24, 04:06

View PostVampyr, on 2016-September-23, 20:00, said:

I love the term que bidding.


Was actually pure typo, but suitable one here :)

View PostVampyr, on 2016-September-23, 20:00, said:

What does QP stand for?


Queen-points (A=3, K=2, Q=1)
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#59 User is offline   Stefan_O 

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Posted 2016-September-24, 04:09

View Posthrothgar, on 2016-September-23, 18:02, said:

This sounds like pretty standard denial cue bidding with an option for reverse relays


I guess you mean they have a common goal -- to pinpoint location of the honour cards.

The design and methods to get there seem disrelated to what I wrote.
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#60 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-September-28, 04:51

View PostStefan_O, on 2016-September-24, 04:09, said:

I guess you mean they have a common goal -- to pinpoint location of the honour cards.

The design and methods to get there seem[s to be] undisrelated to what I wrote.

There are basically 4 main approaches - asking bids, 4-suit RKCB, denial cue bids and parity cue bids. What you have written so far sounds like one of the last two and since DCBs are the simpler option it is logical to expect that to be what you are using. Of course you can get by without pinpointing honours at all, such as with most versions of the Roman strong 3-suited opening that use QPs, but that would not be particularly clever over a strong club given all of the space available.
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