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Force Point system. Have any of you heard about it?

#21 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2016-May-30, 23:20

View PostPavell, on 2016-May-28, 16:08, said:

It is mandatory a material like this to be copyrighted and that was made by the U.S. Copyright Office in Washington DC. The first national Team who decide to go dipper with Fp will win the next Bermuda Bowl easy :)
No big deal, $44 for a personal license. I have to return at least the spending for the publishing ($7,000). Fp system was submitted for publication on May 27, 2016. The book 'Slam after Slam with Force Point' probably will hit the market in less than a month.


$44 is a lot of money for a bridge book.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#22 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-May-31, 03:09

View PostVampyr, on 2016-May-30, 23:20, said:

$44 is a lot of money for a bridge book.

Especially for a system that can only be played in competitions that normal players will never see. FWiiW, Z-B played a FP system (Suspensor) in the 1991 BB and won a silver medal. Unfortunately they were forced to give it up before 1993 due to system regulations and switched to Polish Club instead. And that is really the issue. Most bidding theorists think that FP systems are optimal but noone thinks they are practical to play within the current regulations. I personally think it is a shame but that is not going to stop the RAs from continuing (effectively) to ban them from any serious usage.
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#23 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2016-May-31, 03:27

FP+modulated spacing for the bidding cards is probably even more optimal. (yes more optimal is ungrammatical, sorry)
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#24 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2016-May-31, 04:19

View PostZelandakh, on 2016-May-31, 03:09, said:

Most bidding theorists think that FP systems are optimal but noone thinks they are practical to play within the current regulations.

Really? Maybe most would say that among the approaches that have been extensively tried out in serious competition (standard, strong club, polish, FP), FP is best, but it is a strong claim that they are "optimal". FP does great in bidding contests but those don't factor in opps playing destructive defenses combined with a 2-way pass against it.
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#25 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-May-31, 06:17

View Posthelene_t, on 2016-May-31, 04:19, said:

Really? Maybe most would say that among the approaches that have been extensively tried out in serious competition (standard, strong club, polish, FP), FP is best, but it is a strong claim that they are "optimal". FP does great in bidding contests but those don't factor in opps playing destructive defenses combined with a 2-way pass against it.

The main theoretical point for the most popular style of FP system is the immediate division of hands into 3 roughly equal groups, 0-7, 8-12 and 13+. The biggest advantage typically comes from the weaker ranges and not the stronger one. It is precisely in the competitive auctions that FP systems shine. That said, it is quite true that FP systems have not really been tested against optimal defences because they were effectively banned before development became advanced enough. It would be interesting to see where they landed in terms of overall effectiveness after such a period (much as the effectiveness of the Multi went down after many initial wins). I find it disappointing that the regulators choose to deny bridge that development and advancement. Perhaps it will take the game essentially dying out before someone is willing to make a new start with a more open attitude towards change.
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#26 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2016-May-31, 08:15

Uh, I think for this poster, "FP" stands for "force point", some hand evaluation scheme, not "forcing pass". His table of opening bids doesn't seem to be a forcing pass scheme. The higher level bids may not be legal at all levels of play in some jurisdictions, need more detail.
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#27 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2016-May-31, 08:18

Having a really hard time telling which posts in this thread are serious and which are not Posted Image

edit: just now noticing the promotional necro.
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#28 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-May-31, 08:20

View PostStephen Tu, on 2016-May-31, 08:15, said:

Uh, I think for this poster, "FP" stands for "force point", some hand evaluation scheme, not "forcing pass".

My prediction would be that a team will win the BB with a forcing pass pair before a team using Force Points wins any world championship at all. :lol:
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#29 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-May-31, 08:21

View Postbillw55, on 2016-May-31, 08:18, said:

Having a really hard time telling which posts in this thread are serious and which are not Posted Image

This one was serious! B-)

View PostZelandakh, on 2016-May-31, 08:20, said:

My prediction would be that a team will win the BB with a forcing pass pair before a team using Force Points wins any world championship at all. :lol:

(-: Zel :-)
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#30 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2016-May-31, 08:58

View PostZelandakh, on 2016-May-31, 08:20, said:

My prediction would be that a team will win the BB with a forcing pass pair before a team using Force Points wins any world championship at all. :lol:


I believe that the Poles won a WC with a strong pass pair on their team.

It will be interesting to see if they retain said title.
Alderaan delenda est
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#31 User is offline   Pavell 

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Posted 2016-August-25, 04:24

View PostVampyr, on 2016-May-30, 23:20, said:

$44 is a lot of money for a bridge book.

The book 'SLAM after SLAM with Force Point' (black & white) will cost $16, expect it September 2016 (after re-submission for printing on end of August
The Sysnotes computer program for Internet Force Point playing in a weeek of preparation (free explanations in BBO by Pavell & Boeff) cost around $38
On week of Holidays and all month of December, both of them are selling 20% OFF. Sysnotes & eBook (both in color) can be found on: http://bull-bridge.com
The license for using Fp on Intrnational Tournaments cost $10, but I do not excpect soon some pair or Team to by it. It is mostly for my information if some serious Players learned Fp very well & decided to try it internationally, so I to be able to provide a support for them.
The bundle of 3 can be obtained for less than $55 on sell, but you can buy them separate.
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#32 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2016-August-25, 06:37

View PostPavell, on 2016-August-25, 05:44, said:

How to play it when only Fp Team Players have the knowledge for it, mostly to help me to check the system for practice use? It was locked until prepared. All will be able to play it after September 2016 when the book & eBook 'SLAM after SLAM with Force Point' will be released on http://amazon.com. Or find it earlier on http://bull-bridge.com by the end of August, 2016
First see what I have discovered for 25 years of research, then we will talk again :)
You will be the judge, I will listen.
Pay attention, that the things become very different when put on paper for the world bridge Players, this is not bla-bla talking before everything is finished & precise polished. It's time to look for the system holes (if any) :)
Try to find them.
Happy reading, but be aware you will need a bit of imagination to understand Fp totally!
Pavell


People may buy your book and try out your system. But you need to be aware that they will not pay a license fee. In fact, you may have to pay a decent pair to play your system if you would like it to become well known and well-regarded. Also remember that if the system should become popular, lots of people will play it without buying your book.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#33 User is online   The_Badger 

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Posted 2016-August-25, 09:36

View PostVampyr, on 2016-August-25, 06:37, said:

People may buy your book and try out your system. But you need to be aware that they will not pay a license fee. In fact, you may have to pay a decent pair to play your system if you would like it to become well known and well-regarded. Also remember that if the system should become popular, lots of people will play it without buying your book.


Agree Vampyr,

The other consideration is how easy/difficult will it be to get approval to play it in tournaments? However, I'm all for new ideas and systems in bridge, as long as it doesn't make the game inaccessible to newer players.

Wei Precision was easy to learn and proved that new systems can be developed and used internationally by inexperienced teams, and get stunning results, though C C Wei sponsored and trained the teams initially.

And as I say, the proof is in the pudding [an old proverb - abbreviated] or, in the case, the bidding :)
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#34 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2016-August-25, 18:29

View PostThe_Badger, on 2016-August-25, 09:36, said:

And as I say, the proof is in the pudding [an old proverb - abbreviated] or, in the case, the bidding :)


LOL I hate that abbreviation -- the whole point is that the proof is not in the pudding!
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#35 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2016-August-25, 18:36

Unless you're having Finnish Christmas pudding.
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#36 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2016-August-25, 19:04

View PostJinksy, on 2016-August-25, 18:36, said:

Unless you're having Finnish Christmas pudding.


If I were a child I would rather find a sixpence in my Christmas pudding. Although it it not worth much nowadays.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#37 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-August-27, 04:15

View PostVampyr, on 2016-August-25, 19:04, said:

If I were a child I would rather find a sixpence in my Christmas pudding. Although it it not worth much nowadays.

Traditionally a sixpence is worth 2.5p. Just the bullion value of the low-silver variety (0.0454 oz) is currently close to 50p and earlier (pre-1920) sixpences or those in good condition are worth considerably more, so they probably have more value than at any other time.
(-: Zel :-)
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#38 User is offline   Pavell 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 14:50

View PostVampyr, on 2016-May-30, 23:20, said:

$44 is a lot of money for a bridge book.


Who said $44 for the book? The book will cost $16 ($12 on Holidays and all December), the Sysnotes cost $40 ($32 on Holidays and all December), the License for using Fp on International Tournament cost $10. You can bay all of them separate
Pavell
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#39 User is offline   Pavell 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 15:01

View PostFluffy, on 2012-April-19, 08:34, said:

lol, the arguments look as stupid as those of web pages that want to teach you how to win at online blackjack.


There are some new discovers about bridge game which will allow you to discover simultaneously by number and by kind all of partner's TOP Honors (A + K + Q) with 1 question 1 answer only. The calculations are for 7 grader.

Who said $44 for the book? The book will cost $16 ($12 on Holidays and all December), the Sysnotes cost $40 ($32 on Holidays and all December), the License for using Fp on International Tournament cost $10. You can bay all of them separate.

After the 3rd re-submission of the book, it will be in the market between 15 and 30 October 2016. You can find inside over 120 games.

About the arguments: wait till New Year, and you will hear about about Fp, then post your opinion again.

Pavell
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#40 User is offline   Pavell 

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Posted 2016-September-16, 15:04

View Postveistikke, on 2012-April-19, 10:24, said:

So I shouldnt waste anytime on it then? It looks like a realy nice system thought or???


First read the book, then decide.

The book will cost $16 ($12 on Holidays and all December), the Sysnotes cost $40 ($32 on Holidays and all December), the License for using Fp on International Tournament cost $10. You can bay all of them separate

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