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Am I committed? ACBL

#1 User is offline   bd71 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 07:34



Hand is approximate, but it is a maximum 15-17 NT hand with good hearts and a nothing doubleton in a side suit (i.e. a hand that wants to play 4 across an invitational hand with heart support).

Initially, I see my partner's rebid (incorrectly) as 3H.

I pull the 4 card from the bidding box and have it in my hand above the table, facing me. At this point, I am uncertain whether partner can see what card I pulled, but I'm sure at least one opponent can. I now notice that partners bid is 3N not 3.

This is not a mechanical error as I fully intended to bid 4 when I pulled the card.

Not being sure what to do (and a bit flustered), I completed the bid and went down one in 4 across from a doubleton heart holding when 3N made at the other table.

My question is what options if any I had here (a) after noticing my mistake but before placing the bid on the table, and (b) after placing the bid on the table?
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#2 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 07:40

I think you will need to tell us where you are playing since regulations regarding bidding boxes differ between countries.

But I would suggest your key option is to call the TD at the point you realise you have a problem and ask him or her to rule on whether you have made a bid or not.
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#3 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 07:43

Quote

ACBL Bidding Box Regulation: A call is considered made when a bidding card is removed from the bidding box and held touching or nearly touching the table or maintained in such a position to indicate that the call has been made.


At the point where you noticed your error, your call had not yet been made. The bit about who could have seen the bidding card is a red herring. It comes from the card play laws, and has nothing to do with bidding cards.

After you put the bid on the table, you're stuck with it, unless you immediately change it and LHO calls over the changed call, or the TD is called, and LHO accepts the change (Law 25B).
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#4 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 07:45

In the EBU, where a bid is made if it is clear of the box, you are committed: the bid is made.

In the ACBL, where a bid is made if it is released on the table, the bid is not made and you are in time to change. Partner has UI if he can work out what call you were about to make, but that would not affect this auction.
Robin

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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 08:16

The above posts have covered the matter of whether you made the bid or not.

If there is also doubt about whether seeing partner's bid card incorrectly, and then catching it, is the same as other brain farts ---it is the same, from what I can tell. "Intentional" or "unintentional" seem to refer to the offender's action at that moment, not the reason for the boo boo.
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#6 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 08:17

In Scotland, a call is considered to have been made when the bidding card is removed from the box with apparent intent.
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#7 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 08:31

Funny. When someone posts asking for a ruling in some non-ACBL jurisdiction, and someone else mentions what the ACBL regulation is, the someone else is roundly chastised. And here we are going in the other direction. What's that saying about the goose and the gander? <_<

WellSpyder: it says "ACBL" in the topic title.
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#8 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 09:27

View Postblackshoe, on 2012-April-16, 08:31, said:

WellSpyder: it says "ACBL" in the topic title.

So it does - thanks. (I did look around for it, but still somehow missed it - assuming it was always there. Sorry to have contributed to the thread drift!)
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#9 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 14:18

Heh. It was there when I first posted, nine minutes after the OP and three minutes after your reply, which wasn't there when I started mine. As you say, thread drift. We now return you to the original discussion. :lol:
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As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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