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BBf vs JEC #6 Board # 25 ATB

Poll: BBf vs JEC #6 (4 member(s) have cast votes)

ATB

  1. West (2 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. East (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Both (1 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  4. None (1 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

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#1 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 01:24

Here is another -10 imp decision. Bidding went the way it did in diagram in open room, while in closed room East made a superaccept and reached 4




Would you take different actions by West or by East or by both ?
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity is boundless"

"Gosh given your bbf manner would love to see your teaching LOL if i was a novice i'd be running a million miles from you" - Eagles123

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#2 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 01:52

I might have tried 3 with West but pass is fine too. Partner won't always have a maximum with three card support and well fitting cards. Agree with 2 by East. I superaccept on three card support more than most people but wouldn't with this hand.
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 02:00

When to superaccept is one of the few things we discussed beforehand. I said that I would only do it with 4-card support, but I still thought about doing it here. I don't think that it is right though, it is a nice hand but not that special.

I don't understand Nigel's 3H, to me that shows 6.

We agreed that Andy could have bid 2S showing an invite with exactly 5 hearts. If I then bid 2NT (which I wouldn't of course with this hand) he could bid 3C showing this kind of hand. I think that given this agreement it is probably right to invite. If partner doesn't have a heart fit then 3C will likely make.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#4 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 02:07

We do super-accept with three-card support but only with excellent controls. I believe it works well when partner is unbalanced as he will either have shortage opposite good controls or shortage opposite a lack of values.
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#5 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 02:08

View Posthan, on 2012-April-16, 02:00, said:

We agreed that Andy could have bid 2S showing an invite with exactly 5 hearts.

Just out of curiosity what would 2NT have shown, GF with clubs?
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#6 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 02:11

Yes.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#7 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 03:02

View Posthan, on 2012-April-16, 02:00, said:

We agreed that Andy could have bid 2S showing an invite with exactly 5 hearts. If I then bid 2NT (which I wouldn't of course with this hand) he could bid 3C showing this kind of hand. I think that given this agreement it is probably right to invite.


This is what I play and would have bid accordingly with the West hand. He needs to make the push for the vulnerable game.
'In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.' - Douglas Adams
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#8 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 03:16

I think it's clear for me to invite, givne the methods. I'd just temporarily forgotten that I had 2 available to show an invitation. It's less attractive to act again when playing standard methods, as 2NT may go several down, 3 is an overbid, and 3 is misdescriptive.
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#9 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 03:35

We probably made too many agreements given that we had never played before, but jlall 2/1 is simply too good a system not to play it! ;)

Here is another hand where our system could potentially have helped us:

AK10x
xxxx
AQxx
x

QJxxxx
A
Kxx
xxx

At both tables the auction was

1S - 4C- (dbl)
4S.

However, in jlall 2/1 the 4C bid showed a strong splinter, about 13-15. I think it is right to pass with the south hand, perhaps north can show a void? North would cue 4D (denying a club void) and now I think that south has to bid 4H, last train. I think we might still not get there though, at least not with confidence. If north held AKxx Kxxx Axxx x we would certainly get there though.

We were on our way to a really good spot here:

-
KJ10x
Jxxxx
xxxx

AQxxx
Ax
KQxx
QJ

1S - 1NT
2NT - 3C
pass

The 3C bid was intended as a transfer to diamonds. We had discussed transfers after 2NT rebids with the example auction 1C - 1H - 2NT, should it apply here? I think these things are bound to happen when you play together for the first time with too many conventions.

The auction at the other table was:

1S - 1NT
3D - pass

This does not strike me as good bridge, but it worked.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#10 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 03:36

View Posthan, on 2012-April-16, 02:00, said:

I don't understand Nigel's 3H, to me that shows 6.

With no special agreements, you have to choose between pass, 3 and 2NT. And 2NT also shows a hand I don't have.
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#11 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 03:37

As opposed to 3H? I don't buy that.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#12 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 03:51

View Posthan, on 2012-April-16, 03:35, said:

We probably made too many agreements given that we had never played before, but jlall 2/1 is simply too good a system not to play it! ;)

Here is another hand where our system could potentially have helped us:

AK10x
xxxx
AQxx
x

QJxxxx
A
Kxx
xxx

At both tables the auction was

1S - 4C- (dbl)
4S.

However, in jlall 2/1 the 4C bid showed a strong splinter, about 13-15. I think it is right to pass with the south hand, perhaps north can show a void? North would cue 4D (denying a club void) and now I think that south has to bid 4H, last train. I think we might still not get there though, at least not with confidence. If north held AKxx Kxxx Axxx x we would certainly get there though.




This was interesting board also. Yes i agree that Andy should pass over DBL. But how are you planning to stop when you hold Q instead of ? It is also interesting that, if it went with jacobyish raise from you and Andy showed his singleton , it could be easier to go to slam from your hand. I don't know, i watched this and i maybe resulting.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity is boundless"

"Gosh given your bbf manner would love to see your teaching LOL if i was a novice i'd be running a million miles from you" - Eagles123

Disclaimer: this post is not intended to offend anyone who spews constant drivel. --PhilKing (Stolen from Arend's sig)






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#13 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2012-April-16, 05:48

View Postgnasher, on 2012-April-16, 03:16, said:

It's less attractive to act again when playing standard methods, as 2NT may go several down.


Really? You do still have 7HCP so to go several down would be quite unfortunate. Surely it's better to take the risk that p has 3 (when a 3 contract is unlikely to be bad at all)? Even playing standard methods I would always venture 2NT here at these vulnerabilities.
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#14 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 09:02

Yes this system is very good for this hand type.

Quote

es i agree that Andy should pass over DBL. But how are you planning to stop when you hold ♥Q instead of ♦ ?


When han gave me the hand (I knew no results) I suggested pass then 4H then 5D over 4S. This has the advantage of getting partner to appreciate the DQ rather than the HQ as I've cuebid my DK. For sure partner would like AK AQ better than AK Q A in that auction. Is it possible we get to slam off a trump honor bidding this way? Eg Axxx Kxxx AQxx x would definitely bid 6S over 5D in my suggested auction (limited by aleady signing off over 4H). How about Kxxx KJxx AQxx x? I think that hand should just bid 5H, but it's definitely getting a little scary. Perhaps in retrospect bidding 4H ensuring slam opposite AK K A, but passing over 4S missing slam opposite AK AQ but not getting there off 2 black aces is right. It seems close.
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#15 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 12:05

Thank you Justin, thats a very good reply to the question i asked.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity is boundless"

"Gosh given your bbf manner would love to see your teaching LOL if i was a novice i'd be running a million miles from you" - Eagles123

Disclaimer: this post is not intended to offend anyone who spews constant drivel. --PhilKing (Stolen from Arend's sig)






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#16 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-April-17, 16:23

the 5th club give us enough "juice" to try
2n and we have a 5 card heart suit also.

1n 2d 2h 2n while it might be wrong
it leaves us with 2n 3h 4h and 3n p can bid and
if p bids 3h i'll probably bid 4h

I would not super accept either (though its close
with all of those aces 4 card support bah)
since my super accepts gnerally mean my hand
has improved beyond the 17 realm.

thats for standard--------------

temporarily forgetting a convention playing with
a new partner is welll sheesh semi normal but I
have a feeling that the invite was not done
because of game time decision not forgetting.
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