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What do you bid ? and what does it show ?

#1 User is offline   WGF_Flame 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 10:22

1NT-P-2-Double
P-3D- ?

What do you bid with the hand below and what does it show ?

A32
J98632
T
T76
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#2 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 11:04

View PostWGF_Flame, on 2012-March-11, 10:22, said:

1NT-P-2-Double
P-3D- ?

What do you bid with the hand below and what does it show ?

A32
J98632
T
T76


3, to play. If partner has good heart support and a max hand he might venture 4. Passing would show, in my view at least, a minimum transfer in hearts with 5 hearts (either one or both).
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 11:22

Partner (opener) does not have more than two hearts. My partner also does not have any diamond control..probably 2-3 in the reds. Looks like time to know the colors. 3H can be to play, we just need to decide whether to do it. I probably would, and wouldn't care if partner accepted the non-invite on a max and no diamond cards.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#4 User is offline   broze 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 11:29

View PostHighLow21, on 2012-March-11, 11:04, said:

3, to play. If partner has good heart support and a max hand he might venture 4. Passing would show, in my view at least, a minimum transfer in hearts with 5 hearts (either one or both).


If he had this he would surely have bid over the double. 3 now therefore in my book would be merely competitive and with a game going hand you could double 3.
'In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.' - Douglas Adams
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#5 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 13:41

With any set of agrreements, you should know that partner holds two hearts and with most agreements you will know, whether or not he has values in diamonds.
Anyway, I would bid 3 here, competetive.
Kind Regards

Roland


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#6 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 17:32

View PostCodo, on 2012-March-11, 13:41, said:

With any set of agrreements, you should know that partner holds two hearts and with most agreements you will know, whether or not he has values in diamonds.
Anyway, I would bid 3 here, competetive.

By any kind of heart support I meant something like Axx (unlikely, as partner didn't accept the transfer) all the way down to QT. Both are more than sufficient and partner couldn't know that QT was good enough. You might have been transferring on 87654 and either (1) planning to pass, hoping it'd be better than 1NT, or (2) invite or force game with 2NT or 3NT.

All partner did is let us know that he doesn't insist on playing in hearts.

One thing I am not doing is letting them play in 3 when I have a singleton, partner seems unlikely to have much wasted in that suit, and I know we have an 8-card major fit and at least half the deck. And if partner likes his heart cards and (maybe) offensive hand, I'm not wincing if he puts me in game.
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 18:10

What you will find out at some point in your playing career is that partner will always accept (or super accept) the transfer after a double, if he has 3+ hearts. You might not agree with that concept, but it is a fact of life.

Some (we) also accept with only two if we have a stopper in the transfer suit. It is called a "go" bid, telling partner to continue with a NT rebid if that was her original intent....or whatever she intended to do. That treatment is far, far from standard, though.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#8 User is offline   WGF_Flame 

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Posted 2012-March-12, 01:47

I guess everyone would bid 3H with that hand, this is why i added what does it mean.
The question is should it also show at least weak invite or would you bid 3H even with a little weaker hand such as

XXX
QJ10XXX
X
XXX

and what with a little stronger hand such as
KXX
QJ10XXX
X
XXX
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#9 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-March-12, 01:57

View PostWGF_Flame, on 2012-March-12, 01:47, said:

I guess everyone would bid 3H with that hand, this is why i added what does it mean.
The question is should it also show at least weak invite or would you bid 3H even with a little weaker hand such as

XXX
QJ10XXX
X
XXX

and what with a little stronger hand such as
KXX
QJ10XXX
X
XXX

My better half is very aggressive with 6M when I open 1NT, and might have already Texas'd that 2nd one.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#10 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-March-13, 10:02

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-March-12, 01:57, said:

My better half is very aggressive with 6M when I open 1NT, and might have already Texas'd that 2nd one.

Personally, I would rebid 3 with the second hand, and I might not with the first hand. The reason is that I would have passed out 2 with the first hand, knowing that 3 might go down.

Yes, the first hand has a good trump suit and a 6th trump, but to me the 3 bid suggests that (1) 3 is quite likely to make, and (2) I'm not scared of partner re-evaluating his hand and giving me 4. Thus to me, passing here means you had a minimum transfer, and 3 is (again) to play, but mildly invitational if partner is near-maximum (in this case, that would mean less about his HCP and more about his fit: yes he probably has exactly 2 hearts. But does he have aces and kings in the side suits, or quacks? And how many of his HCP are in minor honors in diamonds, where they are proven to be likely worthless?)

I suspect that there will be wide variance among people, in terms of what people think bidding 3 means, and I'm willing to bet most partnerships will agree that it shows 6 hearts but will be unclear about how invitational it is.

But I could definitely be wrong about that.

Also: yes partner is unlikely to have 3 hearts, but I do know some people who will not accept the transfer after interference holding 3 hearts if (1) the hand is flattish or minimum and (2) the 3 hearts do not include at least a queen.
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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#11 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-March-19, 07:53

There is a kind of semi-accepted principle that you dont make invitational bids with a six card suit opposite a strong NT.

Partly because In virtually any situation you can better use those sequences than invitational hands, and partly because often whether game makes is completely dependent on what suits partner holds cards in, rather than just how many cards he holds.

I would fit this sequence into this paradigm and say that its to play, and not invitational. there are lots of bids available for strong hands right here. One question is what is the difference between 4d and 4h here.
The physics is theoretical, but the fun is real. - Sheldon Cooper
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#12 User is offline   mikestar13 

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Posted 2012-March-27, 14:01

In these 3-level competitive sequences, most of my partnerships follow Kit Woolsey's advice in his book Matchpoints: there are no invitational sequences, if your hand is worth a game invitation, just bid game and let them guess. Notwithstanding the name of the source, that stategy works quite well at IMPs, too. He also suggests a similar strategy at the 5-level with slam invitational hands. This is a special case of his general principle that one should choose the action that has more ways to win.
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#13 User is offline   rtewari 

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Posted 2012-May-16, 02:23

View PostWGF_Flame, on 2012-March-12, 01:47, said:

I guess everyone would bid 3H with that hand, this is why i added what does it mean.
The question is should it also show at least weak invite or would you bid 3H even with a little weaker hand such as

XXX
QJ10XXX
X
XXX

and what with a little stronger hand such as
KXX
QJ10XXX
X
XXX


If we have established methods that NT bidder always shows fit (direct bid with a stopper and XX without a stopper), then it is clear that we are at best on a 8 card fit and trick taking potential of the hand is reduced.

The approach has to be different in IMPs/MPs and also a little vulnerability dependent in MPs

NT opener is normally expected to cover 4 to 5 losers. So with a 5 winner solid suit (i.e. lower honors JT9), it is fine to shoot for game in IMPs. Broken prime suit of same HCP strength has to come via invitation which is what 3H should be played as in IMPs. So with this hand I would be inclined to pass and defend for plus score.

At MPs, I would like to play this as purely competitive as the objective is not to reach game but to get to the best score. Here giving -50 (or -100 if opps double) is better than letting them score 110 and hence some leeway is needed to compete. Vul also, competition is in order provided you do not have good aggressive and capable of defense doublers where you could go for -200.
RT
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