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Use the system?

#1 User is offline   lmilne 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 00:37



Partner opens 1NT (15-17, all 5M332, occasionally 6m, includes some 14s with a good 5-card suit).
Would you bid 3NT, show 55 minors choice of games, or something else (maybe something in your pet system)?
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#2 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 02:14

View Postlmilne, on 2012-March-11, 00:37, said:



Partner opens 1NT (15-17, all 5M332, occasionally 6m, includes some 14s with a good 5-card suit).
Would you bid 3NT, show 55 minors choice of games, or something else (maybe something in your pet system)?


5-5 minors spade shortness choice of games
Chris Gibson
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#3 User is offline   32519 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 02:23

View PostCSGibson, on 2012-March-11, 02:14, said:

5-5 minors spade shortness choice of games


How would you show 5-5 minors and shortness in one bid?
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#4 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 02:52

I would show 5-5 minors (3 or whatever your system calls for) , and if pd bids 3 (values there) bid 3NT, and if he bid 3, will play 5 minor.
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#5 User is offline   32519 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 03:39

I have seen this scheme used before:

1NT-3 = 5-5 minors game invitational (either 3NT or 5 minor)
1NT-3 = 5-5 minors game forcing, slam interest

I have no idea how many others use this scheme?
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#6 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 04:07

View Post32519, on 2012-March-11, 02:23, said:

How would you show 5-5 minors and shortness in one bid?

I don't believe Chris mentioned one bid. Perhaps he has our Minor Suit Stayman in his bag of tricks. Not everyone has converted to 4-suit xfers.

We don't know the form of scoring, or the colors. But, I'm going for it, too. G.F. (via MSS).
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#7 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 04:08

This hand looks at most invitational to me- I'm not forcing to 3NT opposite a min and I'm not sure with our poor suits that we'll have strength for 5m even if we have a fit. If I had a 5/5 invite bid then I'd use it (my system doesn't), otherwise just 2NT.

View Post32519, on 2012-March-11, 03:39, said:

I have seen this scheme used before:

1NT-3 = 5-5 minors game invitational (either 3NT or 5 minor)
1NT-3 = 5-5 minors game forcing, slam interest

I have no idea how many others use this scheme?

Normally it's 3C 5/5 weak, 3D 5/5 GF, and it works fine in the right NT system.
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#8 User is offline   32519 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 05:01

Obviously your choices here are determined by your system. The OP doesnít say what his continuation structure looks like. So letís extend the OP by including different continuation structures. How do you show 5-5 minors and 8-9 HCP when your partnership agreement after a 1NT opening 15-17 balanced or semi-balanced hand includes one of the following:

1. 2/3 as Stayman/Puppet Stayman?
2. 2 as minor suit Stayman? The problem here is your minor suits can be 5-4. Often opener simply ignores the MSS request and blasts straight to 3NT. What now with this miserable minimum? Knowing that your minor suits are 5-5 could possibly influence openerís second bid? How do you get the 5-5 minimum message across?
3. 4-Suit transfer bids? Do you begin with 2NT as a transfer to (the stronger suit)? If opener super-accepts with 3, bingo. But what do you do if opener doesnít super-accept? A possible fit is buried.
4. 4-Suit transfer bids again? This time beginning with 2 as a transfer to ? If opener super-accepts, bingo. But if not, you can still correct to 3, the better suit. Your agreements will tell partner what the 3 bid means. Here it shows 5-5 with a minimum. With a good fit, opener can still bid 3NT or 5.
5. 3 as 5-5 minors, game invitational
6. 3 as 5-5 minors, game forcing
7. Something else?

How does your continuation bidding structure cope with this sort of hand?
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#9 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 05:11

View Post32519, on 2012-March-11, 05:01, said:

2. 2 as minor suit Stayman? The problem here is your minor suits can be 5-4. Often opener simply ignores the MSS request and blasts straight to 3NT.

Your experience with partners who don't know how to respond to MSS is interesting. When 2-suit transfers are the agreement, MSS is used with 3 types of hands:
---weak with 5-5 minors
---G.F.+ (maybe only 5-4)
---Diamond bust.

Opener does not get to go off on his own and make up a 3NT jump. He either bids a 4+ minor or bids 2NT.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#10 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 14:17

If you wanna play 1NT-3NT as 55 minors, at least make it so that responder has no major suit stop. Otherwise it becomes too difficult for opener to guess whether to sit it or not.
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#11 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 17:15

View Postlmilne, on 2012-March-11, 00:37, said:



Partner opens 1NT (15-17, all 5M332, occasionally 6m, includes some 14s with a good 5-card suit).
Would you bid 3NT, show 55 minors choice of games, or something else (maybe something in your pet system)?



3h fragment

good problem


I will go with 3h which shows game force, roughly:

x...Kxx...Qxxxx..AJTx

in other words, minors, short spades, h honor and choice of game.


option two is 2S mss showing a weakish 5-5 in minors.
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#12 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 17:17

This is interesting question I regret I have nothing of value to offer here, just wanted to thank for that thread :)
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#13 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-March-11, 19:15

Assuming I have no way to show 5-5 minors invitational, then I see no option to showing 5-5 minors GF. Presumably I will have a way to show spade shortness next (common in NA is 1N 3D 5-5 minors GF, 3H shortness ask, 3N short spades).

If I could show 5-5 minors invitational then I would probably do that but even then I do have both minor suit tens so it's not like a lock.

If you are going to bid 1N 3N with a way to show 5-5 in the minors GF, I don't know what to tell you, I think that is completely awful. I don't even get the upside, are we hoping for a minor suit lead lol? Inviting in NT also seems silly.
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