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Photographic memory

#1 User is offline   Flame 

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Posted 2004-October-30, 07:00

This is a non conventional post but i hope still to get your opinions.
You know those ppl who you can give a line of many numbers and they will remember it forward and backword, they dont memorized it one by one, they "see" the numbers like they have it on a peace of parper infront of thier eyes.
I know some bridge players who have this skill(one for sure, others i suspect),they arent the extremly smart but they are world class players, sometimes titles as bridge ginious for that, they can picture the cards , they dont count they see them. Oviosly this skill is something you born with but i wonder if you can learn it to some degree, i know myself atleast when im forcus and have say 8 card fit, i dont anymore count 4 on first +round 4 on second + 4 i have meaning there is 1 outside, i can picture a simple 3-2 break. So i wonder first if this is something you can work on , and also if its practicle, maybe some memory working training can have better effect on bridge skills then reading another sqeeze book.
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#2 User is offline   hotShot 

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Posted 2004-October-30, 11:27

Well the question is do you really need to "picture" it.

You can train your mind , to memorize a sequence of 52 cards. There a championships for that, and the methods how to do this are published.
To have a photographic memory of that is not neccessary.

Truth is, that a player who knows which of the xxx Cards are worth a trick (e.g. at the end of a game) has a big advantage.
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Posted 2004-October-30, 13:04

hotShot, on Oct 30 2004, 12:27 PM, said:

Well the question is do you really need to "picture" it.

You can train your mind , to memorize a sequence of 52 cards. There a championships for that, and the methods how to do this are published.
To have a photographic memory of that is not neccessary.

Truth is, that a player who knows which of the xxx Cards are worth a trick (e.g. at the end of a game) has a big advantage.

What you said about those small xxx is a good example of the usefull of photographic memory, and the proff that you and i are using it, why do we remember AKQJ and not 2345, i think because thier picture "speaks" loader.
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#4 User is offline   Rebound 

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Posted 2004-October-30, 17:08

It has been my experience that in any game of skill for which a certain amount of aptitude is almost a pre-requisite, (that is, there are some I know who, lacking any aptitude for card games, will never uderstand any of the finer aspects of bidding or play, but that doesn't make them dumb, merely lacking in aptitude or interest,) it seems there are always eureka moments where a sudden understanding dawns on you and you are able to perceive the game from a new perspective. At these times, I feel that I have reached a new level of ability and I look forward to that next eureka. I think this shows that while natural talent may trump practice and hard work at the highest levels, it is possible for us mere mortals to see into their world if we are sufficiently motivated to put in the effort.

I say this mainly because, when it comes to card games, I am greatly interested in Bridge because it makes me think and because of the mathematics. However, I have no "card sense" whatsoever. When I am declaring or defending, any good play I make is through diligence and hard work. Now, I'm not bragging here. I've been playing bridge for somewhere around 20 years and I'm still not all that good. I can't, for the life of me get the hang of squeezes. I always seem to get them sorta half right. But I digress. Even though I'm not all that great, I still have these occasions where I suddenly realize. A perfect example relates to the original post, where, in a local club game, round about trick 3 of the hand, I suddenly realized that I could pinpoint every card in the deck, declarer's, partners, almost down to who held the higher spots. Not only that, but I knew the precise defense to obtain the maximum number of tricks for our side. At that moment I felt the way the pros must, but alas, that was only one hand. (Unfortunately, my brute force effort to learn bridge usually means that if my mind wanders I am prone to make the most hideous bids and plays simply because there are no natural instincts for card play for my brain to fall back on.)

A better example, perhaps, was when I realized I no longer slavishly followed the rules, such as, 2nd hand low, 3rd high, etc, and began to see the hand in terms of taking and establishing tricks effectively.

Anyway, my whole point really is this: don't worry about picturing cards. Play lots of bridge with people better than you, read lots of books, review hands you have played, both good and bad, and try to pick out mistakes or good plays by any of the 4 in the hand. A teeny dose of talent mixed with a lot of hard work may get you to the level you seek.
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Posted 2004-October-30, 18:33

Rebound said it yourself, your skills arent the same all the time, you have those moments, but then ou say at the end that conventional bridge practice is the way to go. The point of this post is to offer a different view, that maybe the convential way of learning bridge isnt the best or atleast isnt the only way.
Maybe there could be something like bridge meditation. Bridge takes lots of imagination, especially at the diffence, the better a player you get the more you understand that on diffence your work is to picture declarer's hand, The_Hog called it counting, but i believe picturing does the trick better, and when getting used to it, its alot easier then counting.
There may be some tricks that arent writen in brige books, some may be called experts habbit, it can begin with the smallest things like, how to pick your cards, how to put them into suits in the most effective way, how to count ur high cards, but it will get to more serious stuff, those things you can learn maybe from a private trainer, but i didnt see a book talking about it.
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Posted 2004-October-30, 19:51

I'm a firm believer in natural talent. And I believe the 'picturing the hands' you speak of may be a manifestation of that. However, in that case, I would also expect it cannot be taught. Ask best-selling novelists how they write and they are likely to say, I just do.

On the other hand, if it can be taught, it can be learned, which by my definition, is independant of talent. I don't know which is the case here, but it seems like there's a book or web site for everything these days. If you look hard, perhaps you will find it. But I think that if it is possible to learn something like that, it will come from putting it into practice at the bridge table.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy - but it might improve my bridge.
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#7 User is offline   jikl 

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Posted 2004-October-30, 22:57

There is a trick I was taught many years ago...

Easier with 2 people though because it can be more abstract. Deal 13 cards, you have 5 seconds to look at them, then you give them to the other person. They then ask you questions, simple ones are "How many s?", "How mnay black cards?". More complex ones are "How many 3s?", "More even cards than odd cards?" etc.

Put those cards to the side.

Deal next 13 cards, repeat.

Deal 3rd set of 13 cards, more questions. Both these times the same, 5 seconds then quiz.

When you get to the 4th set of 13 cards, you don't get to look at them. You just pass them over. You have already seen the other 39 cards. Now is the real memory test. Quiz time without seeing the cards. :rolleyes:

After trying this a few dozen times I found I was able to get the last 13 cards quite often. Was a useful way to picture the cards around the table when playing.

Sean
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#8 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2004-October-31, 06:33

jikl, on Oct 31 2004, 04:57 AM, said:

There is a trick I was taught many years ago...

--- cut ---

Put those cards to the side.

Deal next 13 cards, repeat.

Deal 3rd set of 13 cards, more questions. Both these times the same, 5 seconds then quiz.

When you get to the 4th set of 13 cards, you don't get to look at them. You just pass them over. You have already seen the other 39 cards. Now is the real memory test. Quiz time without seeing the cards. :rolleyes:

There is a similar sotware for practicing at the PC, although with max 9 cards

http://www.bridge7.c.../oyun/sense.zip
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Posted 2004-October-31, 08:06

I have a pretty good semi-photographic memory. However, my 'photographic' memory only works on cards, and sometimes on numbers not longer than 10 numbers or so. I know sometimes people show their entire telephone number to me on a piece of paper, and I remember it by just looking at it quite quickly. With cards I can play autopilot and get a nice result. For the best results I need to concentrate more ofcourse, but in my fuzzy days I still manage to play decent most of the time :P

With cards, it's more a trained skill ofcourse. I couldn't do this in my early days, but now that I play lots of bridge, I can visualize hands before anybody even played a single card, just because of the reactions you get at the table. It's freaky, but sometimes I just know what my partner is going to bid 2 rounds later :rolleyes: Is it memory, is it experience, is it table feeling? I have no idea...
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