Multi 2D
#1
Posted 2004-October-29, 23:40
I am thinking that after this 2D its better to narow responder's bids to 2H/2S/2NT only, and not bid pemptive like 3H or even 4X. When responder is thinking of premptive and the defenders are quite there is a good chance that opener will have the strong version. am i right ?
#2
Posted 2004-October-30, 01:49
As an opponent I'd be very happy if people take this approach because it will make my life a lot easier. Decisions after 2♦-Pass-3♥ are always more difficult and often scary.
So I'd recommend keeping the preemptive options in your system.
Cheers
Paul
#3
Posted 2004-October-30, 23:07
And you can't draw any inferences from RHO's pass--he might have a battleship without the right shape for immediate action. If has diamond length, he is certain to get another chance--so he can pass. Also LHO might hold a battleship. Preempting is right in both of these cases and only wrong when partner is strong. But 2D-(p)-3H for example doesn't lead to loss in all cases where partner is strong, only in some cases.
It must be right to preempt on any hand where you would do so if you were playing mini-multi (where only the weak meaning is possible).
As an aside, I really love Ben's prefered method of only factoring the minor suit Acol twos into multi and handling the major suit Acol twos via 2C with passable paradox responses in the majors. This method even further reduces the loss on multis with strong hands when partner preempts (fewer hand types=easier to resolve), without inducing much if any loss into 2C. After all, a lot of us open major suit Acol twos with 2C even though we can't get out below the three level.
#4
Posted 2004-October-31, 06:44
mikestar, on Oct 31 2004, 05:07 AM, said:
Yes, this is almost standard in the "italian 5 card major" (played by most italians on BBO):
2D is multi = eithr weak 2 M or strom m opener
Then, there are 2 schools of thoughts for 2M openers according to style:
1) play them as weak 2suiters. This is more preemptive to opps.
OR
2) play them as natural 4 losers hands, nso that 1M opener is limited to about max 17/18 hcp.
This proitects more the 1M opener from preemption, and resolves better the 2C opener.
#5
Posted 2004-October-31, 07:57
#6
Posted 2004-October-31, 09:44
http://www.cavendish...wo/diamonds.htm
If you play multi, it would be well worth it to take a look of Chris's methods and compare with your own.
ben
#7
Posted 2004-November-01, 02:08
#8
Posted 2004-November-01, 06:26
helene_t, on Nov 1 2004, 04:08 AM, said:
Thiis is a major point, and a reason I prefer the vesion of multi that I play. A couple of key points in the responses...
1) A jump to 4H or 4S is to play (this is my suit), not pass or correct
2) A jump to 3H/3S is pass correct, as is 2H/2S
3) A jump to 3NT shows 4-4 in the majors (preempt), but allows partner with the huge balanced hand (mine is the strong version balance hand, 22-24) can pass
4) A jump to 4C or 4D shows 5-4 in the majors, 4C shows 5H's, 4D shows 5S, wihich works out well opposite the 22-24 hand.
#9
Posted 2004-November-01, 06:32
inquiry, on Nov 1 2004, 12:26 PM, said:
helene_t, on Nov 1 2004, 04:08 AM, said:
Thiis is a major point, and a reason I prefer the vesion of multi that I play. A couple of key points in the responses...
1) A jump to 4H or 4S is to play (this is my suit), not pass or correct
2) A jump to 3H/3S is pass correct, as is 2H/2S
3) A jump to 3NT shows 4-4 in the majors (preempt), but allows partner with the huge balanced hand (mine is the strong version balance hand, 22-24) can pass
4) A jump to 4C or 4D shows 5-4 in the majors, 4C shows 5H's, 4D shows 5S, wihich works out well opposite the 22-24 hand.
Especially NV against V, you may wish to consider playing eg 3♥ as Pass, but correct if doubled. This sort of thing really puts the opposition's methods to the test.
Eric
#10
Posted 2004-November-01, 07:38
2D-P-2H-P
P <<----- might be done with spades and short hearts
2D-P-2S-P
P <------- might be done with hearst and short spades,
Etc....
This evil bidding does, in fact, put rrememdonus pressure on the opponents to get it right.
#11
Posted 2005-January-07, 09:40
- 3♣: 4-4 or more in the majors;
- 3♦: 3-3 in the majors;
- 3♥♠: 3-4 in the majors, bid the 3card suit.
If opener is weak, he will bid 3♥♠ or 4♥♠ depending on the known fit; if he is strong, he will be able to bid 3NT (no major fit) or 4♣ (heart fit) or 4♦ (spade fit), or 3♦ over 3♣ to find out if partner has a 5card major.
An indirect benefit is in 2♦ - 2♥♠ (pass or correct) - 2NT, where any progressive move by responder shows not more than a doubleton in his first bid suit: this helps to design a scheme including singleton-showing and fit-searching bids.
I haven't a lot of experience with this development, but it seems very interesting to me. Andrea Buratti and Massimo Lanzarotti, one of the top Italian pairs, play similar responses in their system called Nightmare (for opponents, we used to say in Italy), where 2♦ is a bad weak2 or a strong balanced without 5card majors.
Your opinion?
(Mahan Khalsa)
#12 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-January-07, 11:52
Ben: what would you bid over 2D, say white/red with Kxxx Kxxx x xxxx??
It seems better to just ditch the strong options, or better yet not play multi
#13
Posted 2005-January-07, 13:22
1 - The value LOTT preempts are incredibly effective (all levels of pass/correct)
2 - The value of playing hands from either hand is valuable
3 - The added value of 2H/2S preempts create options you would not have otherwise
From experience, here is what I believe are the prerequisites to playing multi and achieving favorable results;
1 - DISCUSS IN DEPTH, all auctions and all options with your partner.
2 - Have a consistent and mutually cohesive plan as to the nature of how you preempt.
3 - Have solid agreements as to how to handle interference (this is HUGE, occasionally you are blasted out of auction without disclosure of what suit multi hand holds)
Here are some of my personal rules that I like to exercise
1 - As a general rule, a 2D multi preempt is the same preempt as you would normally open 2H or 2S, just because you have gadget to confuse people DONT use 2D without discipline.
2 - A preempt is a preempt. I request of my partner that 3 side controls I prefer NOT be preempt (Ace+singleton, King+void, A+King and K+K although 2 controls I still dont preempt). If you exercise this rule, judging game and slam bidding is much more simplistic.
3 - As another general rule, I try to not preempt when => 50% of my points are NOT in the preempted suit. As mention earlier, a preempt is a preempt 2H means I have hearts not side kings and queens galore.
With respect to the question of utilizing the full set of preemptive bids (Pass/Correct options), I believe that is you do NOT utlilize the preemptive options than you are avoiding one of the greatest benefits of playing multi preempts. Hence, my personal preference is to compliment multi preempts with as many preemptive options as possible (applying LOTT rules) and making sure that partner and I are on the same page!!!!
MAL