[Quartic]

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Your partner overcalls West's 1NT opening with an asptro 2♦ showing 4+ spades and 5+ in another suit. 2♥ from you is pass or correct to the 5 card suit, 2♠ is to play, which do you choose?

[wank]

2♠

if you're not comfortable playing 4-3 fits (might be p's 5 card suit anyway), play a different convention

[Quartic]

wank, on 2012-February-24, 20:16, said:

2♠

if you're not comfortable playing 4-3 fits (might be p's 5 card suit anyway), play a different convention

Asptro isn't my favourite defence to 1NT, but it is commonly known at my local club. The way we agreed it, if partner has 5 spades, they will always have 5+ in another suit.

[brian_m]

Quartic, on 2012-February-25, 04:46, said:

Asptro isn't my favourite defence to 1NT, but it is commonly known at my local club. The way we agreed it, if partner has 5 spades, they will always have 5+ in another suit.

You seem to have bent Asptro from the version I know (or knew).

AFAIR, 2H denies 3+S, so you should respond 2S.

Do you really have to treat 5S and 4H as one-suited in S, as the quote above seems to suggest?

[MickyB]

Presumably 5S4H would have overcalled 2C.

You are on a bit of a guess. Partner's most likely suit is clubs, particularly as neither oppo have bid them yet. Assuming you are playing matchpoints you have to bid 2S, this will almost certainly outscore playing a 5-2 club fit and may fare well against playing a 5-4 diamond fit.

Hopefully, if the auction continues 3C-P-P to you, partner will understand either dbl or 3D as "actually, I want to play in your five-card suit now".

[brian_m]

MickyB, on 2012-February-25, 10:01, said:

Presumably 5S4H would have overcalled 2C.

You are on a bit of a guess. Partner's most likely suit is clubs, particularly as neither oppo have bid them yet. Assuming you are playing matchpoints you have to bid 2S, this will almost certainly outscore playing a 5-2 club fit and may fare well against playing a 5-4 diamond fit.

Hopefully, if the auction continues 3C-P-P to you, partner will understand either dbl or 3D as "actually, I want to play in your five-card suit now".

Yes, I guess they must overcall 2C, unless they're going to disregard the heart suit. Different Asptro to the one I knew. in that case. I can easily believe I'm well out of date, I haven't played it for something like 30 years. The rationale given for its superiority over Astro and Aspro back then was always that you could anchor to your longer/better major with both majors.

[Quartic]

At the table I did choose 2♠. Unfortunately, partner's 5 card suit wasn't clubs, but hearts. The full hand:

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Double dummy I could have got out for down 1, but I misplayed, losing trump control and conceded down 4.

[nigel_k]

I play this all the time and you have to bid 2♥ on these hands. The only losing case is where a 4-3 spade fit would have been better than a 5-2 or 6-2 club fit. The losing cases for 2♠ (overcaller having 4♠ and 5 of a red suit) are about as likely and a lot more costly to get wrong.

But you might want a different method as a passed hand.

[Quartic]

nigel_k, on 2012-February-26, 16:34, said:

I play this all the time and you have to bid 2♥ on these hands. The only losing case is where a 4-3 spade fit would have been better than a 5-2 or 6-2 club fit. The losing cases for 2♠ (overcaller having 4♠ and 5 of a red suit) are about as likely and a lot more costly to get wrong.

But you might want a different method as a passed hand.

Ok, thanks for the advice, I wasn't sure how the risk of playing a bad ♣ contract compared to that of playing a bad ♠ contract. What alternate methods for a passed hand work well?

[nigel_k]

As a passed hand, you have lots of choice as the penalty double is no longer possible. I quite like Adam's Method from the other thread (2♣ = majors, 2♦/♥/♠ nat, X = any major/minor 9+ cards).

You could also just use Asptro one step lower, i.e. X=♥+other, 2♣=♠+other, others natural. But that wouldn't help on this hand.

[Zelandakh]

2♦ in Asptro is not "4+ spades and 5+ in another suit", it is "both majors with longer hearts or 4 spades and 5+ minor or 5 spades and 4+ minor or 4144". You bid 2♥ whenever you can cope with any of partner's responses and do not want to force. Here we can take this case by case:-

1. partner has both majors => we are much better off bidding 2♥ and playing there
2. partner has 4 spades and 5 clubs => we are somewhat better off bidding 2♠, playing in the 4-3 fit at the 2 level instead of the 5-2 fit at the 3 level
3. partner has 4 spades and 5 diamonds => we are better off bidding 2♥ and playing 3♦
4. partner has 5 spades => we play 2♠ either way
5. partner has 4144 => we are better off bidding 2♥ and playing 3♦

Overall, this looks like one of the exceptions to bidding 2♠ with 3 card support. We can (just about) cope with any response after 2♥. That said I do not think 2♠ is wrong since the odds that partner has spades and clubs is high. Note that the 2♦ overcall often causes problems in Asptro when the bidder holds both majors. Usually this is on constructive hands which Advancer want to play a part-score opposite spades and a minor but game opposite both majors though.

[Cthulhu D]

Why not play 2H as pass, or bid 2S with spades + a minor and I can bid 3C as pass/correct with the minors? Then you have a good chance of being in the best fit.

[Zelandakh]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-February-27, 05:34, said:

Why not play 2H as pass, or bid 2S with spades + a minor and I can bid 3C as pass/correct with the minors? Then you have a good chance of being in the best fit.

Over 2♥ the Asptronaut (yeah I know, silly terminology) bids 2♠ with 5 spades, 2NT with 4144 or 3m with 4♠5+m. If you played as the OP suggested then you could of course bid 2♠ with a longer minor as this is no longer required; but this would not be Asptro.

[gordontd]

nigel_k, on 2012-February-26, 16:34, said:

.

But you might want a different method as a passed hand.

When I play Asptro I play that a passed hand double shows four spades and a five card minor. That way 2D promises either five spades or five hearts.

For an unpassed hand I think it's sensible to have extra (points or shape) when you have 4S + 5m or 4H + 5C.

[Cthulhu D]

Zelandakh, on 2012-February-27, 05:51, said:

Over 2♥ the Asptronaut (yeah I know, silly terminology) bids 2♠ with 5 spades, 2NT with 4144 or 3m with 4♠5+m. If you played as the OP suggested then you could of course bid 2♠ with a longer minor as this is no longer required; but this would not be Asptro.

I love silly names, Asprtonaut is great.

Yeah, my suggestion was in the context of the OP, the 2NT feels like you're going to get insanely high on possibly some quite bad fits - but I guess it's for use against a weak NT.

[Statto]

What's described in the OP seems to be Astpro rather than Asptro, in which case advancer would bid the anchor suit (♠) with 4 card support or 3 card support and a singleton, otherwise ask for the 5-card suit. Overcaller isn't likely to be 5-5 in the majors as they would normally have bid 2♣ with this. This doesn't mean that you can't use judgement if you think a 4-3 fit at the 2 level is likely to be better than a probable 5-2 fit at the 3 level. (Swap the ♣ and ♥ and it's an easy 2♥ bid of course.)