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Opinions about this convention ?

#1 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-February-23, 13:02

1H - (1N) - ????
2C = 5 clubs + 5 spades
2D = 5 diamonds + 5 spades

1S - 1N - ????
2C = 5 clubs + 5 hearts
2D = 5 diamonds + 5 hearts

They show 5-8hcp approximately (stronger hands double)
Those could be modified to 4+m - 5M to be more aggressive.

My first intuition is that those are cool but not very good as they are infrequent and bidding natural 6 card minor at 2 level is not total waste (the argument for the convention is that hands with 5 spades are much more important and with 6m you could either jump to 3 level or maybe be better off passing anyway). On the other hand one of the best pairs in history of bridge played that way.
So... what do you think ?
Any other thoughts about showing spades in:
1H - (1N) - ? sequence ?
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#2 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2012-February-23, 13:10

As a general rule, hands where you want to bid rather than double for penalty are going to be weak and distributional. Accordingly, and having also played this way, these calls are in fact rather rare but also potentially useful. The problem, as you noted, is frequency, and I cannot ever recall this actually coming up.


When I play the simpler method of 2 as a surrogate for a negative double, this comes up a lot more.
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#3 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2012-February-23, 13:52

I don't like the sound of that convention (never come across it) because it loses bidding both minors. With no support for partner's major, I am sometimes happy to bid a 5 card minor, and even if it is a 6 card suit I would rather play at the 2 level than the 3 level.

On the other hand, I am happy to give up a penalty double (and play this way with one partner) so any bid below partner's suit is a transfer, and X is a transfer to clubs. With both your examples covered by the convention I simply transfer to the lower then bid the other 5 card suit. Normally of course you transfer to a long suit and pass, sometimes you can show your suit and then rebid partner's major with a suitable doubleton.
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#4 User is offline   Tomi2 

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Posted 2012-February-23, 14:04

in my experience bidding in this position ist most usefull if you have a fit, because it will often be xxx only and you expect trumps to split badly. if you have any kind of hand without the other major or some fit, its likely that they compeat in the missing major, then I think its important to judge correctly, if we belong one level higher or maybe even in game if the 1NT was, let's say streched.

so I play ALL suits below 2M after 1M - (1NT) - ? as values here and fit in the major

xx - jxx - xxx - kqxxx would be such a hand. if they compeate to 2 spades it would be nice if partner raises one level with axx in clubs and lets them play with a club single or bad hearts
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-February-23, 16:01

We, too, have experimented with this situation; but it seems to require giving up a penalty double of 1NT; in return, we get to transfer and keep the option of dropping dead or continuing with more description in some cases.

1M (1N) ?
-------dbl=clubs
-------2c=diamonds
-------2D=hearts if 1S was the opening; if the opening was 1H it shows 5, (allowing 2H contract)
-------2H=simple raise of 1H, or if responding to 1S, showing 5 hearts and spade tolerance.
-------2S=simply to play 2S.

Using this method we can show a minor and the other major if we choose to do so..via the continuations; but we are not overjoyed about giving up the penalty double.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#6 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-February-28, 12:46

One thing that I have seen and considered is that

1H-1N-2c = spades +hearts.

I.e., to play in spades unless partner has a 6th heart or a 05 in the majors. Something like QTxxxx Kx xxx xx, or so. It seems to come up quite a lot, but sometimes even when you play in hearts you would ratner play in the worse spade fit due to entry trouble. Also sometimes helps you get to game.
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#7 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2012-February-28, 13:28

I like 2 as two places to play, one of which may be partner's suit. So for example, after 1-1NT you could bid 2 on Phil's example hand but also on Qxxxx x Qxxxx xx. Obviously it won't be great if they get to the three level quickly, but often that doesn't happen.

This also means the method is the same regardless of the suit opened, so you don't need to remember as much (important for me).
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2012-February-28, 14:35

These 2-suiters are way too rare to have much merit. I prefer 2 as 5OM-2M, 2 as a good raise, 2M as weak raise and 2OM as natural without interest in M. Oh, and 2NT as INV+ with 4+M, because 1NT is easily psyched...
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#9 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-February-28, 14:51

Quote

I prefer 2♣ as 5OM-2M


This one keeps coming up. I like it, sounds like the most frequent/useful bid.
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#10 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-February-29, 01:48

Taking the ideas in this thread and combining with a common method over 1m - (1NT) perhaps 2 as "constructive with 5+oM + 2M; or 3+M; or 6+oM" would work. Opener would assume the 2M, 5oM hand and give preference (2 for spades, 2 for hearts) after which Responder can clarify their hand type. This not only deals with the most popular hand type for the bid in this thread but also gives 2 ways of bidding 2M. The 2 bid is also free and, besides the obvious natural option, could perhaps instead be used for a constructive hand with spades and a minor if desired.
(-: Zel :-)
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#11 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2012-February-29, 02:54

View PostFree, on 2012-February-28, 14:35, said:

These 2-suiters are way too rare to have much merit. I prefer 2 as 5OM-2M, 2 as a good raise, 2M as weak raise and 2OM as natural without interest in M. Oh, and 2NT as INV+ with 4+M, because 1NT is easily psyched...

We do this except we link clubs to hearts and diamonds to spades as we do in other auctions. So 1-1NT - 2 and 1-1NT-2 are the good raises.
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#12 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-February-29, 03:03

seems awful
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