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certifiable

#1 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 20:05

is how my X (at matchpoints) was described by a world class player.... agree? i was more than a bit surprised by the response. obv a 2nd spade would be nice, but it seems a little pathetic to me to pass here at MPs. My 2nd choice was 2, not pass which he advocated.

A little linguistic context might be helpful for non-English people: mad people need to be certified as such to permit their being remanded to psychiatric hospitals.


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#2 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 20:30

I prefer 2 as pard may be stuck and bid 2 with modest heart support but I'm often dyslexic enough to have a heart in with my clubs.

Only my partner thinks that is certifiable and I kinda think pass is for people that sleep with a night light or are never seen without an umbrella.
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#3 User is offline   menggq 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 21:09

2 definitely.

If QX QT9X JX ATXXX.I prefer DBL
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#4 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 21:32

Double is better than 2H, but I agree with the commentator that pass is quite normal.
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#5 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 21:39

a cruddy hand to be sure but ceritiable come on:)

your p chose a 1s overcall that usually occurs when
they either have really decent spades or a hand that
looks like a poor candidate for a tox (especially
in this case where the bidding makes it look like
p is short in dia)

the x is much more flexible (p might even bid 2h with
3 of them and a non rebiddable spade suit). The x
also keeps clubs alive which 2h will usually bury.

This is my way of saying WD I agree with the x and
they might as well send the butterfly nets after me
as well.
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#6 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 22:08

Pass is certifiable.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#7 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 22:14

I think this is an obvious double. I cannot understand pass and I suspect your "world class" player is world class only in his own underpants.Further x is a far better call than 2H - the H suit is not that good and the X gives you extra flexibility.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#8 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 01:41

View Postwank, on 2012-February-20, 20:05, said:

is how my X (at matchpoints) was described by a world class player.... agree? i was more than a bit surprised by the response. obv a 2nd spade would be nice, but it seems a little pathetic to me to pass here at MPs. My 2nd choice was 2, not pass which he advocated.

A little linguistic context might be helpful for non-English people: mad people need to be certified as such to permit their being remanded to psychiatric hospitals.




Pass would not even occur to me both in mp and imps tbh. I would much rather DBL now than getting into tank after/if pd doubles 2 or bid something else. I obviously would feel awful as well if it went all pass, had i not doubled.

Having said that, if responsive double requires tolerance to pd's suit by agreement , to me Queen singleton qualifies for it.
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#9 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 02:46

Pass does seem a little pathetic at MP. Like X.
"If you lose all hope, you can always find it again." ― Richard Ford, The Sportswriter
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 03:05

Double looks OK to me.
If future responses could be on topic, i.e. comparing the two suggested systems, rather than some alternative nutjob method, that'd be appreciated, thanks. - MickyB
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#11 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 03:16

to anyone doubting the accuracy of 'world class', the player in question has World Open and European Open medals.
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 03:47

View Postwank, on 2012-February-21, 03:16, said:

to anyone doubting the accuracy of 'world class', the player in question has World Open and European Open medals.

The opinions of a world-class player are still only opinions, albeit well-informed ones. When it's a matter of style, like this one, there's unlikely to be a consensus even amongst the very best players.

Anyway, I can guess who it was and you know that he always exaggerates his views. If he says "certifiable", that's like someone else saying "I don't agree with it."
If future responses could be on topic, i.e. comparing the two suggested systems, rather than some alternative nutjob method, that'd be appreciated, thanks. - MickyB
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#13 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 04:10

i suspect you guessed wrong though of the 2 possibilities.
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#14 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 07:27

To possess medals from the BB/World Open etc means a lot, but it does not say that you have the ultimate bidding style for anybody.

Double looks obvious to me. If partner has a quite weak hand with spades, he will have good spades and my hand will be nothing to be ashamed of in 2 Spade.

So what can be the reason for your expert to disagree?
Mabe this: After one spade your chances of game are too low to go for it- and if you have game, partner will surely bid again, even if yoou pass now. And if you have no game, your best result could be to defend 2 diamond- which will be literally impossible after your double. Just a guess. As I said, I had doubled without losing too many thoughts about this.
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#15 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 09:23

Normal dbl to me as well.

3H is a possibility too.
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#16 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-February-21, 09:46

I like double. It brings clubs into the picture, and partner can give heart preference on three.
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#17 User is offline   Poky 

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Posted 2012-February-22, 05:12

Bridge is all about finding and implementing profitable bidding strategies.

Bidding with Hxx in opponent's suit and shortness in partner's suit is one of most unprofitable solutions ever (you have a classic situation like: xx-Hxx-Hxx-Hxxxx after 1-2...).

Keep doubling with hands with decent equity (partial length in partner's suit, partial shortness in opponents' suit), passing with bad hands (especially when they have much passive values) and you results will on the long run be much better.

Pretty easy stuff even for a non-world-class player, I would say.

However, even 2 is better than double (since 2 only places the contract while the double virtually promises a 2nd spade).
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#18 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-February-22, 05:32

If double really "virtually promised" two spades, obviously it would be foolish to double. I just don't think it does - I think it shows hearts and clubs, which is what I have.

I expect partner to bid a four-card round suit if he has one, and if he rebids 2 with a six-card suit that's fine too. If he is 5323 he will usually bid 2. The only problem is if he has a 5233 shape, with opponents being in a non-fit. Luckily, most opponents won't be in one of those, but if they are we'll also end up in a non-fit.
If future responses could be on topic, i.e. comparing the two suggested systems, rather than some alternative nutjob method, that'd be appreciated, thanks. - MickyB
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#19 User is offline   jmcw 

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Posted 2012-February-22, 05:43

At the table I would have X'd, but reading the comments and thinking it through gives me doubts.

Easy to see how a X could work out badly, but, on balance I still think it right to bid. I would prefer a better suit to bid 2 and it runs the risk of losing the suit. With shortness in partner may well show with only 3 so X seems the most flexible call.

X = 10
2 = 7
P = 6
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#20 User is offline   Poky 

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Posted 2012-February-22, 09:09

View Postgnasher, on 2012-February-22, 05:32, said:

If double really "virtually promised" two spades, obviously it would be foolish to double. I just don't think it does - I think it shows hearts and clubs, which is what I have.

With singleton spade, you have a decent defense against 2 too.
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