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board P criticised me for

#1 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 19:45



3H was GF, could have been 5-4. 1NT was forcing semi-forcing.

any comment on this bidding at matchpoints? P criticised my choice. i'll leave you to guess for the time being which I was.
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 19:58

Prefer 2H if 3H is a GF. Who knows the value of the DK? Prefer 3S to 3NT by a long way.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#3 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 20:54

View Postwank, on 2012-February-18, 19:45, said:



3H was GF, could have been 5-4. 1NT was forcing semi-forcing.

any comment on this bidding at matchpoints? P criticised my choice. i'll leave you to guess for the time being which I was.


the hand is pretty good but I have to admit I would
downgrade the hand enough to bid 2h vs 3h. If the
dia was stiff and the clubs Kx i would be much happier
with 3h

Given the conditions of contest I would bid 3n over 3h.
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#4 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 21:12

An almost identical hand came up in the Saturday afternoon game at the Charlotte Bridge Club today: North was 6-5-1-1, not 5-5-2-1. He preferred to 3, down 2.

With the hand shown, I'd have preferred to 3 as North.
BCIII

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#5 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 21:42

It appears that North wanted to play the hand, I have a lot of sympathy for him. 3 is clear
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#6 User is offline   frank0 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 22:58

Wait, if 3=preference, what's your bid if you have 11HCP and 3(you make forcing 1N and want to jump 3 next round to invite, but now you have slam try hand)?
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#7 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 23:06

I much prefer 2H to 3H and I prefer 3S to 3NT. You and your pard have no chance of winning events if you bid like this IMO.
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#8 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 23:45

View Postfrank0, on 2012-February-18, 22:58, said:

Wait, if 3=preference, what's your bid if you have 11HCP and 3(you make forcing 1N and want to jump 3 next round to invite, but now you have slam try hand)?


Good question. This may look like an agreement thing but here is what i think . Most people with the fast arrival logic plays after ;

1-1NT
3...

3= i have a 3 card 10-11 raise
4= i was gonna bid 2 after 1 NT, i have a bad 2 raise.

Which sounds like a plan on the paper. However it is pretty bad imo. I am not even gonna get in the fast arrival criticism, but when opener makes jump shift, responder doesnt always have hands such as 3 card 10-11 fit or 3 card bad 2 raise. There other type of hands in between such as no real fir and not able to bid 3NT.

Most top players that i know play it this was;

3= preference or 3 card fit which wasnt good enough to make a 2 bid at the first place. Looking for right strain. He may not be able to bid 3NT for example.
4= This is the answer to your question, 10-11 3 card fit.
4 minor = Depends on agreement, my own invention is 4= support, limit raise and honor or 5th trump, 4= supp, lim raise, no honor or 5th
4= supp and weakest hand.
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#9 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 23:59

View PostMrAce, on 2012-February-18, 23:45, said:

View Postfrank0, on 2012-February-18, 22:58, said:

Wait, if 3=preference, what's your bid if you have 11HCP and 3(you make forcing 1N and want to jump 3 next round to invite, but now you have slam try hand)?

Good question.
4= This is the answer to your question, 10-11 3 card fit.

My response, exactly. You beat me to it.
BCIII

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Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
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#10 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-February-18, 23:59

View Postwank, on 2012-February-18, 19:45, said:



3H was GF, could have been 5-4. 1NT was forcing semi-forcing.

any comment on this bidding at matchpoints? P criticised my choice. i'll leave you to guess for the time being which I was.


I dont know which choice was yours but i would bid 1 NT and 3 NT with North hand as it was bid in the diagram. I have very strong spots in minor suits and all my hcps is in minors. I dont really see the advantage of playing 5-2 fit with my small doubleton support. If i am not bidding 3 nt with this i dunno what will i bid it with. Otoh i am not so sure about the 3 bid.

For example i would bid 3 with

Jx
xxx
AJTxx
xxx
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Disclaimer: this post is not intended to offend anyone who spews constant drivel. --PhilKing





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#11 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2012-February-19, 02:41

North had a routine 3S bid, south had a routine 4H bid. Not sure which one was more obvious, they are both pretty clear to me. The idea of bidding only 2H with the south hand is also lolworthy to me.
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#12 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2012-February-19, 02:42

You have to bid 3S with north hand, partner is often going to be 6421/6412 for his 3H bid. 4S will just be better than 3Nt too often. This is by far the worse mistake.

Imo 2H/3H are both ok. I downgrade stiff king more than other players, but AKxxx,AKxxx is just wow.

1S-1nt-3H is just an awful sequence for natural bidding, I just hate it will all my gut when I get those and im playing standard.
Wank comments on a ATB

"obviously north miscounted his cards and his points, whereas south only miscounted his cards"
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#13 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-February-19, 04:19

I wouldn't criticize this auction strongly but 3H and 3N are both certainly debatable. I think north should bid 3S but he does have both minors stopped and only 2 small spades. His holding is prime enough that I prefer 3S but it's certainly not the worst bid ever and I'm the biggest criticizer of non preferencing in JS auctions usually.
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#14 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-February-19, 04:21

View Postrogerclee, on 2012-February-19, 02:41, said:

North had a routine 3S bid, south had a routine 4H bid. Not sure which one was more obvious, they are both pretty clear to me. The idea of bidding only 2H with the south hand is also lolworthy to me.


It seems somewhat inconsistent that south has a 4H bid if north has a 3S bid. I mean I guess north could be 1-3 but bidding 4H seems weird to me, north could also be 1-1 or a lot of shapes and south has a pretty good 3N dummy. Anyways, I guess the point is if you play natural having a way to differentiate between 5-5 and 5-4 is very important so you don't have to guess, be it an artificial 2C (gazilli), an artificial 2N, or an artificial 3C showing clubs, 4 hearts, or a spade 1 suiter (with 3H showing 5-5).
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#15 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-February-19, 04:39

Whatever action caused us to miss a chance at a final contract of 2S would be the one I criticize. Perhaps Opener would bid 3H after a 2S preference (O.K.). But then, we would be in a final contract of 3S.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#16 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2012-February-19, 07:28

Partner says lots of shape.
But an A plus a K won't even prefer.
6S is a better shot than 3NT.
Contradict partner needs a sure thing.
This ain't.
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#17 User is offline   Poky 

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Posted 2012-February-19, 13:31

When you have poor methods everything could go wrong in various ways.

Play 2 artificial and keep direct jumps to 3_new_suit as 5-5 invitational (some 15-17). Then North has an easy 3 bid.

Bidding 2 would have been crazy. South has a nut hand.
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#18 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-February-19, 15:18

i was south fwiw. p shared the opinion, expressed by some here, that I should only bid 2 at MPs.

i felt like jlogic says that with an A and a K north's hand was suitable for suit play despite the nice minor pips and that p should perforce bid 3.
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#19 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 07:38

Everything seems normal to me. Pard is a results merchant.

The 3S bid shows a fit where I live (though I know it's normal for it to be just a preference the other side of the pond).
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#20 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 08:28

Hi,

2H instead of 3H, planning to bid 3H over 2S from p.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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