I had this slightly awkward bidding decision tonight. Unfortunately 4C from you would promise ♣ and ♠ (all bids are under the assumption opener has a weak 2 in hearts).
6-5 monster opps multi
Posted 2012-February-14, 21:09
I've played variants where double shows ♥, which would be ideal here, but in standard Dixon it is take out.
To bid any number of ♣ or ♥ now puts partner under too much pressure without knowing an awful lot about our hand, and doesn't guarantee we'll even get to bid again. Though I'm not sure how I'm going to bid next, but at least I'll know a little more about partner's hand.
Posted 2012-February-14, 21:14
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Don't know anything about ZAR points, except that I don't need to know any more. " ....655321
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
Posted 2012-February-14, 22:50
I think 4m should be that minor plus either major in this auction.
Another obvious risk of passing is that it goes 2S on your left, 4S on your right, and you haven't described your hand. You can bid 4N but it might be tough to find slam etc. It all gets kind of murky.
Posted 2012-February-15, 01:04
1) I STRONGLY disagree with South opening here, either with Multi or a standard weak 2♥. When holding 6-4 in the majors, I have seen it all too often that the partnership misses game in the shorter major. On this layout 4♠ makes if you guess the ♠ suit correctly. So for me, South should pass here. On the actual bidding sequence, the ♠ fit was buried.
2) North’s opening bid here poses some interesting questions –
a) Do you open Multi, Muiderberg or a weak 2♠? Obviously the decision depends on your system agreements. This partnership were playing Multi, so to advertise a 6-card major, North would probably have opened 2♦.
b) East enters the bidding with 2♥. South now knows that North’s suit is ♠. Holding 4 and a ♣ void, the cross-ruffing potential is huge. Added to favourable vulnerability, many South’s may easily jump to 4♠.
3) Pass-Pass-back to East. What now? Easy, with this holding, the next bid is 5♣.
4) Back to South. With the ♣ void, South is now looking at a sacrifice and raises the stakes by bidding 5♠.
5) Pass-Pass-back to East. What now? In the actual sequence, East blasted into 6♣ and got away with it because North was on lead.
6) Pass-Pass-back to North. What now? What bid is available to North demanding a ♥ lead which defeats the contract? A Lightner Slam Double is the answer. http://www.gabrial-u...ns/LIGHTNER.HTM A Lightner X demands an unusual lead, not that bid by the defenders. With East overcalling ♥ and South holding 6, playing Lightner Slam Doubles, South should be able to work out that a ♥ lead is required.
The N/S compounded errors turned a plus score into a huge minus score. Declarer made 6♣ for a score of 1370, a total swing of 1570. If this was a team match, as the N/S pair, I would run and hide from my teammates!
Posted 2012-February-15, 03:29
Yeah, spot on. Don't know what I was thinking. After the ♥ lead is ruffed, the rest of the hand can be ruffed out.
Posted 2012-February-15, 09:25
This is a very interesting question. When South passes 2♥X it places him with a ♥ pre-empt. But the X from East also placed him with a genuine ♥ suit. How many? Most would expect to see 5. West has 2 which means North is void in the suit. So how many tricks are N/S expecting to make? Down 3X pockets +500 for E/W. Down 4X pockets +800 for E/W. Both ♥ and ♠ games are out of the question for E/W. From the bidding West knows that North must be loaded with ♠. But the minor suit situation is not yet known. Pulling a probable +500 for an exploratory minor suit bid is no guarantee that a minor suit fit will be found leading to game. West has no idea of East’s powerhouse. From all the posts thus far, Justin’s makes the most sense. I have upvoted it as well.
Posted 2012-February-15, 09:37
Not according to 99% of multi defences. Normal is
2♦-p-2♥-X = takeout of hearts (usually short)
although some people have been experimenting with
2♦-p-2♥-X = short (0-2) or long (5+) hearts. Anyway, even if you played this, you would assume partner has short hearts, rather than long.
Posted 2012-February-15, 10:39
With the E hand I think I'd be capable of passing smoothly over 2♥, and that would be my choice, if I felt I couldn't do it smoothly, I'd have to take some action, what would depend on methods (what is 3♥ and how does partner bid over it without a heart stop particularly on a hand like this without spades ?).