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Support with support, and also with a void?!?

#1 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-February-04, 16:38

OK... I am used to GIB fudging by a card, but, WTF? Showing spade support with a VOID?!?


"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-February-04, 16:42

Oh BTW I'd also like to know what my system bid is with this hand in place of 4♠, as apparently 3♦ shows 4+ diamonds.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#3 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-February-04, 16:45

Michael when do you plan to start playing with people again?? :-)
Hey 2/1: Whoever said I want to give up the right to play in 1NT?
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#4 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2012-February-04, 22:47

Never mind just "showing support with a void"... GIB chose his void over his 3-card support of partner's second suit.
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#5 User is offline   georgi 

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Posted 2012-February-07, 10:56

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-February-04, 16:38, said:

OK... I am used to GIB fudging by a card, but, WTF? Showing spade support with a VOID?!?

Thanks for reporting. This will be fixed for sure.

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-February-04, 16:42, said:

Oh BTW I'd also like to know what my system bid is with this hand in place of 4♠, as apparently 3♦ shows 4+ diamonds.

It would be addressed for improvement how GIB could provide artificial GF.

#6 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-February-07, 14:15

I haven't been able to reproduce this. The book bid is 3♥, and in my tests it usually bids this, but some simulations get it to bid 3♦ or 3♣.

I think you made the correct 4♠ bid with your hand.

#7 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-February-07, 19:07

View Postbarmar, on 2012-February-07, 14:15, said:

I haven't been able to reproduce this. The book bid is 3♥, and in my tests it usually bids this, but some simulations get it to bid 3♦ or 3♣.

I think you made the correct 4♠ bid with your hand.


I have witnesses. ;)
http://www.bridgebas...393521-50079663

As for 4♠ being the correct bid, what would I do with a weaker 5-card spade suit like Q9xxx?
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#8 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-February-08, 12:05

I don't think the suit quality matters. With a 5=4=2=2 hand and strength for game, you bid 4♠ when partner supports you.

#9 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-February-08, 14:48

View Postbarmar, on 2012-February-08, 12:05, said:

I don't think the suit quality matters. With a 5=4=2=2 hand and strength for game, you bid 4♠ when partner supports you.


But "2-3 S" isn't real support - especially not coming from GIB. Now if you are saying that 2♠ is supposed to almost always show 3, then I see the point. But if our spades could routinely be Q9xxx opposite 8x I'd like to be in 3NT some of the time.
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#10 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-February-08, 15:49

If you have good controls in the red suits, you could try 3NT. The reason GIB would support with only 2 is because it didn't have a good hand for 2NT, so you have to make up for that.

#11 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-February-08, 17:26

What I love is that the Alert for the 4♠ bid is 4+♥ and 6+♠. Really?? I hadn't noticed that before. (Maybe this alert was GIB's way of assigning blame to you for going game opposite his trump void!)
Hey 2/1: Whoever said I want to give up the right to play in 1NT?
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#12 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2012-February-08, 17:53

View Postbarmar, on 2012-February-08, 15:49, said:

The reason GIB would support with only 2 is because it didn't have a good hand for 2NT, so you have to make up for that.


The book reason perhaps... we have all seen this kind of idea perverted into something horrible by GIB's simulations.

I really would be happier if I could just bid 3♦ as an artificial force to get GIB to tell me more about its hand, like whether it really has 3 spades, or maybe a diamond stopper it forgot to mention last round, or maybe some heart support it forgot to mention...
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#13 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-February-09, 10:58

View PostHighLow21, on 2012-February-08, 17:26, said:

What I love is that the Alert for the 4♠ bid is 4+♥ and 6+♠. Really?? I hadn't noticed that before. (Maybe this alert was GIB's way of assigning blame to you for going game opposite his trump void!)

It's using the same logic as mgoetze: since 2♠ only promises 2, 4♠ should have 6.

But sometimes you have to fudge, if you don't have anything better. Most of the time I think GIB will have 3.

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