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3 diamonds or 4 clubs? ACBL

Poll: 3 diamonds or 4 clubs? (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Bid 3 diamonds or bid 4 clubs?

  1. 3 diamonds (12 votes [41.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.38%

  2. 4 clubs (13 votes [44.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.83%

  3. something else (4 votes [13.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.79%

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#1 User is offline   dickiegera 

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Posted 2012-January-29, 08:10



What is the better bid here? 3 cue bid support of or 4 splinter if 4
is a splinter in this situation

Thank you
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#2 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-January-29, 09:20

As long as long as you are on the same page as partner for a splinter, it reaps wonders on this hand.

Unfortunately for me, 4 would be a fit-showing-jump in competition, and I would have to go with the 3! support-cue. But I think 6 will still be reached....
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#3 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2012-January-29, 12:11

If I can bid 4C as splinter, that would be my choice.
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#4 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2012-January-29, 16:00

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-January-29, 09:20, said:

As long as long as you are on the same page as partner for a splinter, it reaps wonders on this hand.

Unfortunately for me, 4 would be a fit-showing-jump in competition, and I would have to go with the 3! support-cue. But I think 6 will still be reached....


Yes, it is a pretty common agreement that one can splinter only in the opponent's suit.
London, England
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-January-29, 17:16

This hand doesn't matter which we choose. North is a bit too strong in support points for our splinter (which is available); but even opposite a bit less opener will go slamming if we splinter.

With the 3D cue, North will be the captain, instead of South; and South will cooperate at every turn. Result: 6 no matter what.
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#6 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-January-31, 05:43

Splinter looks ideal if available, but its not available for me. Disagree that its too strong, you have way too many diamonds for this to be a good hand. I dont think you should pass with 4 card support even though 2dx looks tempting.
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#7 User is online   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-January-31, 05:53

Looks like a wtp pass to me (AQTxx) and opener seems to have a wtp double (AK, AQ along with a singleton). I'm guessing they will run to clubs whereupon N can bid 4 or something. I'm not saying that the two wtp decisions above will add up to a good score necessarily, of course.
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#8 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-January-31, 06:35

View Postgwnn, on 2012-January-31, 05:53, said:

Looks like a wtp pass to me (AQTxx) and opener seems to have a wtp double (AK, AQ along with a singleton). I'm guessing they will run to clubs whereupon N can bid 4 or something. I'm not saying that the two wtp decisions above will add up to a good score necessarily, of course.


I trap pass more than most, yet trap passing with 9 card fit has never got any good results for me. I am stopping to do it even with 8 card support now.
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#9 User is online   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-January-31, 14:19

Statto don't sit on the fence but tell us what you think! :)
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#10 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2012-January-31, 16:20

anything other than pass is ridiculous IMO.
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#11 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-January-31, 17:44

support with support - trap pass is all well and good if they stay in 2DX, but they aren't - someone's running to clubs. Now you've lost the opportunity to show primary spade support, and the auction may be at 4C next time it gets to you.

I would bid 3D, and probably try to cue-bid in my drive to slam, assuming partner shows any sign of life.
Chris Gibson
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#12 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-January-31, 20:20

View PostCSGibson, on 2012-January-31, 17:44, said:

support with support - trap pass is all well and good if they stay in 2DX, but they aren't - someone's running to clubs. Now you've lost the opportunity to show primary spade support, and the auction may be at 4C next time it gets to you.

I would bid 3D, and probably try to cue-bid in my drive to slam, assuming partner shows any sign of life.

Or, the bidding won't get back to you at all. Partner doesn't blindly reopen with every opening bid. he will with this one so you merely cannot catch up to bid the slam. Worse case would be defending 2D undoubled...having had little chance to defend it doubled because of what Chris stated about them running to clubs.
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#13 User is online   the hog 

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Posted 2012-January-31, 22:26

Pass is pretty ridiculous with a 9 card fit. Would it be a great surprise to see the hand passed out? I also cannot bid 4C and would have to bid 3D to start with.
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#14 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-February-01, 01:17

View Postgwnn, on 2012-January-31, 14:19, said:

Statto don't sit on the fence but tell us what you think! :)

I voted for 3 but the trap pass hadn't occurred to me :(. Now it's been pointed out, I quite like it, though there are downsides as also pointed out. Another downside is that we can't guarantee that opener will reopen.
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#15 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-February-01, 04:58

View Postgwnn, on 2012-January-31, 05:53, said:

Looks like a wtp pass to me (AQTxx) and opener seems to have a wtp double (AK, AQ along with a singleton). I'm guessing they will run to clubs whereupon N can bid 4 or something. I'm not saying that the two wtp decisions above will add up to a good score necessarily, of course.


Nope, they wont :lol:

And very frustrating for pd too.
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#16 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2012-February-01, 23:09

When you can see partner's hand its clear that a trap pass wont work because they have clubs to run to. You think every 1S opener partner has is 6412?

How do I know we have a 9 card fit?

How do I know partner has a stiff club?

Anything other than pass after 1S 2D is unimaginable to me.
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#17 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-February-01, 23:17

View Postrduran1216, on 2012-February-01, 23:09, said:

When you can see partner's hand its clear that a trap pass wont work because they have clubs to run to. You think every 1S opener partner has is 6412?

How do I know we have a 9 card fit?

How do I know partner has a stiff club?

Anything other than pass after 1S 2D is unimaginable to me.

You are right. They meant at least a nine card fit because partner opened 1S and you have 4 of those. In this case it is a ten card fit. The rest of the post is equally silly. For instance, responder can see his stiff club.
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#18 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-February-01, 23:40

I would bid 3. I can pretty much guarantee with at least some of my partners that if 2 is passed around to them, they'll do one of three things, none of which is double. Okay, okay. Bid 2, bid 2, or pass. Probably in that order. If East bids 3, pass becomes most likely.

Or maybe I'm just feeling particularly frustrated tonight. :rolleyes:
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#19 User is offline   rduran1216 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 00:24

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-February-01, 23:17, said:

You are right. They meant at least a nine card fit because partner opened 1S and you have 4 of those. In this case it is a ten card fit. The rest of the post is equally silly. For instance, responder can see his stiff club.


my point is that most of the time when you hold AQ10xx of an overcaller's suit, you should be looking to punish. Nothing is stopping the 1S opener from being 5314 or 5305 or 5215 or 5404 or 6214 or...

Even if the opps have a 9 card club fit, how often will they run to it? If the partner of the 2D overcaller is xx25, do u expect him to rescue?

The only downside to pass, is if the auction goes 1S 2D all pass. The frequency of this versus the frequency partner reopens is very skewed in favor of reopening IMO. Yes my last post was riddled with oversights, point was, they wont have a 10 card club fit most times one of them overcalls a separate suit, and I can always make a forcing call later by cueing the overcallers suit. The upside of punishing here has to be the top priority.
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#20 User is offline   mikestar13 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 02:39

View Postrduran1216, on 2012-February-02, 00:24, said:

my point is that most of the time when you hold AQ10xx of an overcaller's suit, you should be looking to punish. Nothing is stopping the 1S opener from being 5314 or 5305 or 5215 or 5404 or 6214 or...

Even if the opps have a 9 card club fit, how often will they run to it? If the partner of the 2D overcaller is xx25, do u expect him to rescue?

The only downside to pass, is if the auction goes 1S 2D all pass. The frequency of this versus the frequency partner reopens is very skewed in favor of reopening IMO. Yes my last post was riddled with oversights, point was, they wont have a 10 card club fit most times one of them overcalls a separate suit, and I can always make a forcing call later by cueing the overcallers suit. The upside of punishing here has to be the top priority.


I doubt if even Ely Culbertson (Who wrote in his Blue Book in 1930 "Collecting penalties is the prime objective of Contract Bridge.") would try to punish the enemy with a not unlikely spade slam and poor defense if they run to clubs. And in those ancient days 1-(2)-X was a penalty double, where nowadays you have to trap pass since double would be negative.

In answer to the OP, cuebid 3 but if the splinter is systemically available (it usually isn't) and in range for your partnership, by all mean use it.
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