[Phil]

Swiss Teams - Palm Springs Regional. The quality of play is very high.

J9xxx x x AKTxxx. R/W, Imps and you deal.

1) Do you pass or bid?

2) Say you pass. The auction continues:

Pass - (1♥) - 1♠ - (4♥);
?

Now what?

[Bbradley62]

4♠, np yet...

[aguahombre]

The "problem yet" is that 4N is not Wood; and 5C is not fit-showing.

[MrAce]

aguahombre, on 2011-December-19, 01:33, said:

The "problem yet" is that 4N is not Wood; and 5C is not fit-showing.

If this 5♣ is not fit showing, then i dunno what is. Whether we bid it or not is another story. After all we may buy the contract at 4 level, when we bid 4♠ after a heavy preempt we dont have to have such a great fit always and they may sell it thinking we are already bidding under pressure while 5 spades is down. On the other hand we have a big hand even if they dont compete. Bidding 4♠ shuts down pd regardless of what he has. Also if they compete we may regret it.

Tuff choice because it needs too many keycards to make slam, and even if pd have them we may still not bid it because he may have stiff club. AKxxx xxx Axx(x) x(x) is he supposed to bid slam with this ? I dunno tbh but it still looks like a perfecto to me. And there are some other hands where we dont have slam that can make him too excited.

I would probably be happy to buy the contract as cheap as possible rather than making an ambitious slam bid. I will bid 5♠ myself anyway over 5♥ so thats not what i worry about.

[ArtK78]

Classic IMP problem. Both sides have a big fit. In these cases, it almost always pays to bid one more.

I would bid 4♠ over 4♥, and, if they bid again, I bid again.

Yes, slam could be cold, but there is no way to look for it with any real assurance, and it could get us too high.

There is something to be said for blasting 6♠, as it could prompt the opps to dive in 7♥. But I am not willing to take that deep a position.

[wyman]

5♣ for me. There's gonna be a 5+ level decision, and this should really help partner make it.

[Hanoi5]

I think I'll try 5♥. Other than that 6♠ sounds like a good try.

[MrAce]

Hanoi5, on 2011-December-19, 10:13, said:

I think I'll try 5♥. Other than that 6♠ sounds like a good try.

I wish my partners had too many keycards when they overcall at 1 level like yours.

[gnasher]

(1) I'd have opened 1♣, partly to avoid this sort of problem.

(2) I'd bid 4♠. If they bid 5♥, I'll double to say I think it's our hand (which may not be true, of course).
If I were planning to bid 5♠ over 5♥, I'd bid 5♣ now, because the chance of being allowed to play 4♠ is fairly low. I think it's a bit excessive for a passed hand at adverse to commit to the five-level opposite a one-level overcall.

[whereagles]

4C for starters. Then I'll see.

[Free]

whereagles, on 2011-December-21, 04:52, said:

4C for starters. Then I'll see.

It's likely you'll see that the TD tells you your partner is banned for 1 round of bidding

5♣ is definitely fit showing. A passed hand that all of a sudden bids 5♣ without fit? That's ridiculous. I don't think I'd bid it though, 4♠ seems enough.

[Cthulhu D]

Isn't the big advantage with 5C that they are likely to bid 5H anyway over 4S, and this way partner will know what to do, whereas with 4S you have to make the decision unilaterally?

[whereagles]

oh. I could swear I saw 2H. Anyway, 4S for me as well, yes.

[MrAce]

Cthulhu D, on 2011-December-21, 06:57, said:

Isn't the big advantage with 5C that they are likely to bid 5H anyway over 4S, and this way partner will know what to do, whereas with 4S you have to make the decision unilaterally?

May i ask what decision you are refering to ? If it is slam decision then you may have a point. But i think slam is unlikley though not impossible. And as i said it is questionable whether 5♣ bid will actually land us there even if we have slam and/or stop us before slam when we dont.

If it is about helping partner in deciding to bid 5♠ over 5♥, bidding 5♣ now doesnt really make too much sense because you are bringing your side to 5 level WITHOUT opponents actually competing at 5 level!

Unless you believe this hand is likely to make slam and likely to be bid accurately after 5♣ bid (which i dont), why broadcast your hand to everyone when you have a chance to play 4♠ and if they bid 5♥ when u have an easy 5♠ ( i say easy 5♠ because those who bid 5♣ are comitting to 5♠ even without the competition anyway)

[Free]

I also find 5♠ easy if opps bid 5♥ over my 4♠.

[Phil]

Maybe I should have opened. Its definitely the style of this partnership but not others. It didn't occur to me at the time.

I chose 5♣ thinking this was going to be a 6 level decision, not one at the 5 level. LHO had a defensive 18 and doubled for -1. Unfortunately your teammate doubles 4♠ after this hand opens so we lost 14.

[MrAce]

Phil, on 2011-December-21, 09:48, said:

Maybe I should have opened. Its definitely the style of this partnership but not others. It didn't occur to me at the time.

I chose 5♣ thinking this was going to be a 6 level decision, not one at the 5 level. LHO had a defensive 18 and doubled for -1. Unfortunately your teammate doubles 4♠ after this hand opens so we lost 14.

So there was a chance u wld also be doubled in 4♠ when lefty had defensive 18. I know not neccesarilly but when they already make a heavy preempt and you start thinking and finally bid 4♠ ( i am not saying intentionally thinking to misguide opps, if u look at replies in this topic we have 4♠ bidders, we have 6♠ bidders, we have 5♣ bidders, we have 5♥ bidders..so it is not an obvious bid for everyone ) Opps may not accurately know what your problem was. They may as well think you made a borderline save decision. And as i said, that could be the case too since you are forced to bid at 4 level vs a simple 1♠ overcall with a passed hand. How can someone blame LHO for failing to figure u have a 5 cards support and a side AKxxxx suit for a passed hand ? Not saying first pass is wrong, it is just not usual for a passed hand to come back with such a great fit and side source of tricks.

[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on 2011-December-19, 19:16, said:

(2) I'd bid 4♠. If they bid 5♥, I'll double to say I think it's our hand (which may not be true, of course).
If I were planning to bid 5♠ over 5♥, I'd bid 5♣ now, because the chance of being allowed to play 4♠ is fairly low. I think it's a bit excessive for a passed hand at adverse to commit to the five-level opposite a one-level overcall.

Meh imo you overestimate the chances of them bidding 5H. This auction is a guessing game and people often have enough random d/don't know enough about the hand that they guess to defend. No one knows that much about the hand and the secondary fits etc. From their point of view you are a passed hand and were under a lot of pressure to bid, your hand doesn't have to be such a lock. I assume we are all bidding 4S with 41xx and most hands that have a little something, etc. If there is even a 25 % chance of us playing 4S if we bid it then giving up on that to bid 5C and risking going down in 5S is not a good idea. I cannot imagine that they bid 5H 75+ % of the time. You might get to a good slam, but even if you do they might save in 7H. And it is unlikely they will incorrectly try doubling you on power if you try for slam.

[Cthulhu D]

MrAce, on 2011-December-21, 09:14, said:

May i ask what decision you are refering to ? If it is slam decision then you may have a point. But i think slam is unlikley though not impossible. And as i said it is questionable whether 5♣ bid will actually land us there even if we have slam and/or stop us before slam when we dont.

Goodpoint.

[whereagles]

Agree with the logical man. In the past I've taken actions like 5C on antecipation, only to end up -1 vs what would be a pass of 4S.

It's far from certain they'll bid 5H.