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#1 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 08:17

Kx
xxx
J9xx
1098x

All red, IMPs, RHO deals and passes.

p - p - 3H - Dbl
p - ??
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#2 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 08:22

View Posthan, on 2011-November-01, 08:17, said:

Kx
xxx
J9xx
1098x

All red, IMPs, RHO deals and passes.

p - p - 3H - Dbl
p - ??


UGH
UGH UGH UGH

Torn between pass and 4
If I expected to be on lead, I'd pass. As is, I think that 4 is better.
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#3 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 08:24

3.

Kind of funny, but it sort of appeazrs like a reverse siotuation I have seen before, where the doubler in a pinch doubled with 4-2 in the majors and then crosses fingers when partner bids the 2-card major. I might have to not ruff the first three hearts, but that might be OK.
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#4 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 08:26

gerber. pass isn't bad though.

But does the principle "4 card suits down the line" apply here in case our dear partner bids 4? I am momentarily confused.
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 09:50

View Posthrothgar, on 2011-November-01, 08:22, said:

Torn between pass and 4
If I expected to be on lead, I'd pass. As is, I think that 4 is better.

I just never can be sure when the Opps will accept my lead, but I will pass anyway and try it.
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#6 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 10:03

I am not torn (not happy, but not torn). Takeout doubles were meant to be taken out.

4.
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 10:08

View Postgwnn, on 2011-November-01, 08:26, said:

gerber. pass isn't bad though.

But does the principle "4 card suits down the line" apply here in case our dear partner bids 4? I am momentarily confused.

Good question. Related question would be: What is the frequency of need for 3NT to play (versus pass)? Maybe 3NT could be used as a scramble (which partner might pass with appropriate strength and stops); the given hand seems as if it would occur quite often.
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#8 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 10:08

4 followed by 5 if pard cues 4.

The hand isn't THAT bad unless we get stranded in a 4-3 which could happen in either minor. Same problem at the other table(s) too.

ps. if we belong in 3nt there is a good chance an enlightened partner already bid it instead of double
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 10:16

View Postaguahombre, on 2011-November-01, 10:08, said:

Good question. Related question would be: What is the frequency of need for 3NT to play (versus pass)? Maybe 3NT could be used as a scramble (which partner might pass with appropriate strength and stops); the given hand seems as if it would occur quite often.

Sounds like a horrible idea (sorry). 3NT is not infrequent and is very useful.
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#10 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 10:39

View Postgwnn, on 2011-November-01, 10:16, said:

Sounds like a horrible idea (sorry). 3NT is not infrequent and is very useful.

Yeh, and definitely not my first horrible idea. We could be defending 3H doubled (some other time) with inadequate penalty to compensate for the making NT game.

4d down-the-line might be fine if doubler bids 4H, but rates to suck if partner doesn't bid again and has a reasonable double with, say, 4-1-3-5 distribution. 4C rates to suck if partner has a reasonable double with a lot of distributions not involving 4+clubs.
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#11 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 13:22

I bid 4
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#12 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 14:11

4D or 4C should do it. Probably 4D, since you can bid 5C later on if pard gets happy.
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#13 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 15:14

The more I think about it, the more I like my odd and unpopular 3. There are a few factors that encourage me in my choice:

1. Partner has room to bid 3NT.
2. I have the ability to redouble in a pinch as SOS
3. If partner keeps bidding, our final game contract is lower; I could also bid 4NT after 4 if I want to, which sounds like "just joking, pick a minor."
4. 3 gets doubled less than 4minor, in principle, as it enables an escape to 3NT.
5. 4 gets bid over 3 more than over 4minor.
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#14 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 17:25

View Postkenrexford, on 2011-November-01, 15:14, said:

The more I think about it, the more I like my odd and unpopular 3. There are a few factors that encourage me in my choice:

1. Partner has room to bid 3NT.
2. I have the ability to redouble in a pinch as SOS
3. If partner keeps bidding, our final game contract is lower; I could also bid 4NT after 4 if I want to, which sounds like "just joking, pick a minor."
4. 3 gets doubled less than 4minor, in principle, as it enables an escape to 3NT.
5. 4 gets bid over 3 more than over 4minor.


The more i read it, the more i think the word "unpopular" is a HUGE understatement.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

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#15 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 18:07

View Postkenrexford, on 2011-November-01, 08:24, said:

3.

Kind of funny, but it sort of appeazrs like a reverse siotuation I have seen before, where the doubler in a pinch doubled with 4-2 in the majors and then crosses fingers when partner bids the 2-card major. I might have to not ruff the first three hearts, but that might be OK.


3S?! Now that is the funniest post you have ever made. Even funnier will be Dummy's face as you are struggling alng in your 4-2 fit at some level.
4C for me.
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#16 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 18:57

What color was your daughter's poop when you suggested 3?

4 for me and its not close at all.
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#17 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 19:21

View Posthan, on 2011-November-01, 08:17, said:

Kx xxx J9xx 1098x All red, IMPs, RHO deals and passes.
p - p - 3H - Dbl
p - ??
IMO 4 = 10, 4 = 8, _P = 7, 3N = 4, 3 = 3.
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#18 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2011-November-01, 19:22

View Posthan, on 2011-November-01, 08:17, said:

Kx xxx J9xx 1098x. All red, IMPs, RHO deals and passes.
p - p - 3H - Dbl
p - ??
IMO 4 = 10, 4 = 8, Pass = 7, 3N = 4, 3 = 3.
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#19 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-November-02, 03:59

I'm not a hero in these type of decisions, but I'd bid 4.
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#20 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2011-November-02, 07:56

it's really not a difficult game - you bid 4 and most likely go off. i'm sure you've gone off before.

partner is more willing to make an off-shape double with short diamonds (as you normally have 5 to bid 4), so you shouldn't bid 4 here.
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