BBO Discussion Forums: 2 Hearts or 3clubs - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2 Hearts or 3clubs 2/1 ACBL

#1 User is offline   dickiegera 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 458
  • Joined: 2009-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 2011-August-21, 16:06

I open 1 and partner bid 2.
Playing 2/1 how do most of you treat a 3 bid?

Does it show extras values or does it show only shape?

In talking about this among friends most say shape however one person
quotes their teacher/expert [12000 points] who is very adamant that
it show extra values.

Holding Qxx, AJxxx,x,KQxx I would bid 3 not 2

Opinions
1

#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,942
  • Joined: 2005-January-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cologne, Germany
  • Interests:Sleeping, Eating

Posted 2011-August-21, 16:36

I think it should show extras, just not quite as much as in a SA system. It is a pretty expensive bid which can give partner some headaches.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
0

#3 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,773
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2011-August-21, 16:56

I play it mostly shape, but 3514 is not good enough shape to bid 3 imo without extras. Give me 11 hcp 5-5 6-5 hand and i will, but not with 3514.

With the hand u gave we bid 2NT. Our 2 usually promises 6 card but not mendatory, for example put that Q to suit, that would be 2 for me. Not saying this is superior, but thats how we play it. I just hate the idea of being forced to choose between bidding 3 with this and bidding twice a bad suit, and actually AJxxx is not that bad, in another hand it maybe even worse. So the method i like gives more flexibility imo.

EDIT: i play 1-2m-2 % 100 shape though, what i wrote above applies to only 3 level bids.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"





0

#4 User is offline   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,739
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-August-21, 17:27

View Postdickiegera, on 2011-August-21, 16:06, said:

I open 1 and partner bid 2.
Playing 2/1 how do most of you treat a 3 bid?

Does it show extras values or does it show only shape?

In talking about this among friends most say shape however one person
quotes their teacher/expert [12000 points] who is very adamant that
it show extra values.

Holding Qxx, AJxxx,x,KQxx I would bid 3 not 2

Opinions



I play it as shape but here in the forums the best/advanced players play it as extras

easy 3clubs for me in your example i play a rebid shows 6 but...easy 2h for most of the forum.

How does pard know if you have extras?

Basically pard assumes you have a minimum hand say 10-13 as you will very very often.
With alot of extras you bid again.
That means the say 14-16 hands will create an issue.
One way to reduce such 14-16 pt hands is to open 1nt offshape often.
0

#5 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,247
  • Joined: 2010-October-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 2011-August-21, 18:25

Assuming 2D! = game force, then

3 should show extras just like a direct 2 could show extras.

You can devise a way in which a 2H! rebid will show a minimum ( with subsequent bids to show 4s or not ). But then 2H! will not guarantee extra length. However you can show extra Ht length later ( at the 3-level ) .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
1

#6 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2011-August-21, 18:38

Good luck playing it as shape only.............
0

#7 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,465
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2011-August-21, 19:21

Extra strength and 5-5 or better for me.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
0

#8 User is offline   Quantumcat 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 944
  • Joined: 2007-April-11
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Bathurst, Australia
  • Interests:Archery, classical guitar, piano, watercolour painting, programming, french

Posted 2011-August-21, 21:32

When you don't know where your fit is, you need to know whether you are aiming for slam or only game by the time you get to the three-level.

If you are still changing suits at the 3-level, that should be a clear indication that you are interested in slam, and you don't mind too much if it takes a while to figure out what strain you want to play in.
I Transfers
1

#9 User is offline   peachy 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,056
  • Joined: 2007-November-19
  • Location:Pacific Time

Posted 2011-August-22, 01:51

For me, it should show extras, but the extras can be in the form of a nice looking 5-5. With 5-4 hearts and clubs, definitely need extra raw values.
0

#10 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2011-August-22, 02:29

It's better to play it as showing extras. Otherwise how can partner know what to do if he has a minimum GF with 4 support? 3NT may be the highest contract possible, but a slam is possible if opener has extras. In that case opener may bid again (but not with every 16 count imo), but you can no longer set easily, cuebid and ask for keycards.

Also there's no need to show distribution right away, responder with 5-4 can rebid 3 after our 2 catchall, he can bid 2NT in which case we can bid 3 showing 5,...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#11 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,080
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-August-22, 03:46

Hi,

Those are two schools, I prefer the one, that showes add. values.

You can drop the req. slightly, say just below rev. strength, but opener
should start limiting his hand with his 2nd bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#12 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,741
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2011-August-22, 04:16

Bridge with Dan has a nice write-up on the basics of vanilla 2/1 and you will not go far wrong if you follow the advice given here. FwiiW I am with the 3C showing extras brigade - Dan writes "15+ or 13+ with 5-5 shape" and this seems to be about right.
(-: Zel :-)
1

#13 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2011-August-24, 15:58

Extras.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#14 User is offline   jogs 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,316
  • Joined: 2011-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:student of the game

Posted 2011-August-24, 16:10

Bid 2. If the hand belongs in clubs, partner will bid them on his next turn.

Also if it goes 1-2, 2-2, ? Bid 3NT, fast arrival. Don't bother to show the clubs.
1

#15 User is offline   jdeegan 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,427
  • Joined: 2005-August-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Economics
    Finance
    Bridge bidding theory
    Cooking
    Downhill skiing

Posted 2011-August-24, 21:52

:P Do not take bridge lessons from your peers! Listen to the good players, and 12,000 masterpoints should easily qualify. Concerning the question at hand, 3 uses up bidding space, so it shows extra values, but they don't have to be in the form of high cards. They could be playing strength. Almost any 6-5 should qualify, and all but the weakest 5-5 hands. A 5-4-3-1 with maybe 16 working HCP or 5-4-2-2 with 17 working HCP. You are in a game force, so a simple 2 to suggest a minimum won't hurt on most hands UNLESS you have something to say. Your example hand is WAY short of a 3 bid.
1

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users