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Solutions for abuse

#1 User is offline   Darjeeling 

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Posted 2011-August-09, 11:35

I am surprised to see there is so little discussion on this forum about abuse in the form of rude behaviour.
Roughly once every hour I play someone crosses the line in my presence. There must be hundreds if not thousands of violations every day. The typical abuser goes around playing at random tables, waits until he can find fault with anyone, scolds him/her and more often than not leaves in the middle of the hand (if you're lucky; some stay or even remove the scoldee if they are host).
Needless to say; this takes away a lot if not all the fun of playing on BBO.

What can we do about this?

- Yes, I can also play only with people I know against people I know. This would reduce my BBO-activity by 99,99 percent.
- Yes, I know I can make these people 'enemy'. Been adding such people for years (900+ on the list now) and it just keeps coming at the same rate.
- Yes, I know it is possible to report abuse. Sometimes I even do report. But even if this method always leads to the desired result, apparently the barrier to report is too high and hence the problem persists.

Or does my (silent) presence at a table simply evoke rude behaviour?

Again, what can we do about this?
Post a message to every player every time s/he logs on explaining the house rules, including sanctions?
Lower the barrier for abuse reporting? Right-click persons name, mark abuse => automatic message to abuse with a timestamp?
Assign behaviour-ratings and give option to play only rating >x?
Allow players to only play with boardcompletionrate>98?
Require members to supply their real name when they sign up?

Anyone?
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#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2011-August-09, 14:05

View PostDarjeeling, on 2011-August-09, 11:35, said:

I am surprised to see there is so little discussion on this forum about abuse in the form of rude behaviour.


Perhaps because...

Quote

- Yes, I can also play only with people I know against people I know. This would reduce my BBO-activity by 99,99 percent.


...other forum members are not in this situation. Maybe you should...

Quote

- Yes, I know I can make these people 'enemy'. Been adding such people for years (900+ on the list now) and it just keeps coming at the same rate.


... instead have spent your years marking 900+ as friends. Then you would have plenty to play with.

Of course, if you are just silent at the table, they might not want to play with you again...
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#3 User is offline   babalu1997 

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Posted 2011-August-09, 15:47

matmat is systematically beheading the abusers, quartering their bodies and displaying body parts throughout the kingdom.

but that is a lot of work for one guy, plus he has a lot of other interests.

but honestly, none of your proposed solutions work.

View PostFree, on 2011-May-10, 03:57, said:

Babalu just wanted a shoulder to cry on, is that too much to ask for?
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#4 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2011-August-09, 16:15

View Postbabalu1997, on 2011-August-09, 15:47, said:

matmat is systematically beheading the abusers, quartering their bodies and displaying body parts throughout the kingdom.


Oh! He's *that* kind of troll.
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#5 User is offline   Aberlour10 

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Posted 2011-August-09, 18:38

View PostDarjeeling, on 2011-August-09, 11:35, said:

Again, what can we do about this?

Your suggestions sound not bad, but I am afraid they are impracticable in the reality of the MBC. Playing mostly random tables like you I have a (subjektive) feeling the verbal rudeness is less from year to year. Anyhow that'something.
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#6 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-August-09, 18:39

View PostDarjeeling, on 2011-August-09, 11:35, said:

Yes, I can also play only with people I know against people I know. This would reduce my BBO-activity by 99,99 percent.
You should check out some of the free "private" clubs: BBO Fans, IBAA, etc. Yes, they have tournaments, not MBC play, but they take behavior seriously and blacklist violators. Playing those would also help you build your friends list.

View PostDarjeeling, on 2011-August-09, 11:35, said:

Lower the barrier for abuse reporting? Right-click persons name, mark abuse => automatic message to abuse with a timestamp?

I think it would be better to have a place on the chatbox to report abuse, which would ask you who you were reporting and then send the chatbox contents to abuse@. This is how these things are reported in the AOL chatrooms.

View PostDarjeeling, on 2011-August-09, 11:35, said:

Require members to supply their real name when they sign up?
I love this one, but don't see it happening.
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#7 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2011-August-10, 08:24

View PostBbradley62, on 2011-August-09, 18:39, said:

View PostDarjeeling, on 2011-August-09, 11:35, said:

Require members to supply their real name when they sign up?
I love this one, but don't see it happening.


What reasonable ways do you suggest BBO use to "require" members to supply their real name? Reasonable means that everyone has access to that way of verifying who they are.

Credit card? Does everyone (from young people to players from certain select countries have a credit card?)
checking account?
paypal account?

This is a very non-trivial requirement if the goal is to maximize availability of the site. One idea might be to have a room similar to the open room that only allows people who have verified who they are, but what would happen to the rooms where anyone without verification play? Would that become even worse than the problems experienced now for the younger players etc who could not verify.

I like the idea of verification, I am just unaware of a workable solution to the technical problems to be overcome. Having a verified email address is not a solution given how easy it is to get "free" and unlimited new email addresses.
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#8 User is offline   Darjeeling 

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Posted 2011-August-10, 11:28

All your objections make sense. I agree with most of what you all say.

Does this mean everything has been considered, tried and discarded - that there is simply no solution? I find it hard to believe that a place like BBO simply accepts this.

I see hundreds of posts about rating systems both in BBO as on the forums, with endless discussions and critiques and the most sophisticated suggestions. The expertise is absolutely there.

I love to just click one button and then I am whisked away to an empty seat. If I had to search for tables with only friends, exactly one empty seat, and then set the permission mode to manual I'd spent 80% of my time managing instead of playing. Do tell me if it's too much to ask for: just be spared comments that noone would dare to utter at a live table.
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#9 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2011-August-10, 12:25

View PostDarjeeling, on 2011-August-10, 11:28, said:

Do tell me if it's too much to ask for: just be spared comments that noone would dare to utter at a live table.


The short answer to your question is "Yes"

The long answer is "The cure is worse than the disease"
Alderaan delenda est
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#10 User is offline   MzoMadness 

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Posted 2011-August-10, 17:24

I am glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! I'm new to the site, and so far I have not been to a table where I have been treated decently. I'm a beginner, and I've listed this on my profile. If I take more than a few seconds to bid, I get harrassed. I bid a little too low once, but before I could finish making my contract (which I was going to do), I was thrown out of the game and berated by the person in charge of the table. Again, this has happened at every single table I've tried, so I'm deleting my username. I have no issue with criticism, because I know I'm not an expert player and have a lot to learn, but I'm not in the business of taking garbage from people. There are other sites to play bridge- this one obviously is full of high-level players and people who don't think twice about saying exactly what's on their minds. I'm sorry I don't play at a high enough level for this website!! I wish I had a solution to the jerk behavior, but I don't see any change as long as one can go anonymously.
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#11 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-August-10, 17:46

Quote

Do tell me if it's too much to ask for: just be spared comments that noone would dare to utter at a live table.


Welcome to the internet?
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#12 User is offline   jonottawa 

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Posted 2011-August-10, 22:51

I'd settle for a lack of rude behavior from yellows. When a yellow sits down at my table, my partner and I greet him and his partner, and he replies with:

"wonderful (not.)"

I understand that Fred gives his employees a lot of leeway, but I think he'd draw the line at a complete lack of common courtesy. Not that this is the first time this particular yellow has been gratuitously rude.

Edit 8/18. Changed 'volunteers' to 'employees' as I've been informed that the person in question is the latter.
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#13 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2011-August-11, 03:45

View PostMzoMadness, on 2011-August-10, 17:24, said:

I am glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! I'm new to the site, and so far I have not been to a table where I have been treated decently. I'm a beginner, and I've listed this on my profile. If I take more than a few seconds to bid, I get harrassed. I bid a little too low once, but before I could finish making my contract (which I was going to do), I was thrown out of the game and berated by the person in charge of the table.


That sucks. Were you playing in the "Main Bridge Club" or the "Relaxed Bridge Club"? If the former, I suggest you switch to the latter. Alternatively, you might want to look into the "Beginner-Intermediate-Lounge".

Quote

There are other sites to play bridge- this one obviously is full of high-level players


Oh sure, but I very much doubt you've sat at a table with one of them yet. ;)
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#14 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-August-11, 05:42

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-August-10, 17:46, said:

Welcome to the internet?

That was basically my thought, too.

The online world is different from what people are used to IRL. It's been known for years that people are far ruder online. Much of it is because of anonymity, but even without it people behave badly. Seeing someone's reaction is a strong social barrier to inappropriate behavior.

It's not just bridge, it also happens in online discussions. Look at the comments sections of blogs, Youtube, etc. -- everything degenerates into calling someone who disagrees with you "gay".

#15 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2011-August-11, 07:55

You need to grow a thicker skin :) Silence is fine but is in itself considered rude especially to not say at a minimum "hello." Anyone who adversely comments on your play can safely assumed to be non-expert. If possible, request the host to set hand completion rate to >95% and do not play with "new", the hiding place of banned players.
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#16 User is offline   sharon j 

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Posted 2011-August-11, 16:34

From Lonesome Dove "I hate rude behavior in a man.....I won't tolerate it"
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#17 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2011-August-11, 17:15

View Postbabalu1997, on 2011-August-09, 15:47, said:

matmat is systematically beheading the abusers, quartering their bodies and displaying body parts throughout the kingdom.



I also eat their entrails; that requires an ample supply of salt, garlic, and onion. I could possibly post a recipe, but maybe hrothgar can dig something out? possibly sous-vide?

JLOGIC has it. This is the internet -- you can't force people to be nice. Have you considered the possibility that your line that gets crossed is just too stringent? or the chance that you may also be considered rude by others?


Requiring a real name is unrealistic and (imo) also unwarranted. There are lots of reasons why one may wish to remain anonymous, not all are tied to logistical issues..
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#18 User is offline   shintaro 

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Posted 2011-August-12, 02:05

View Postjonottawa, on 2011-August-10, 22:51, said:

I'd settle for a lack of rude behavior from yellows. When a yellow sits down at my table, my partner and I greet him and his partner, and he replies with:

"wonderful (not.)"

I understand that Fred gives his volunteers a lot of leeway, but I think he'd draw the line at a complete lack of common courtesy. Not that this is the first time this particular yellow has been gratuitously rude.




name and shame the bugger (If of course yoou have proof they said it)
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#19 User is offline   shintaro 

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Posted 2011-August-12, 02:07

View PostMzoMadness, on 2011-August-10, 17:24, said:

I am glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! I'm new to the site, and so far I have not been to a table where I have been treated decently. I'm a beginner, and I've listed this on my profile. If I take more than a few seconds to bid, I get harrassed. I bid a little too low once, but before I could finish making my contract (which I was going to do), I was thrown out of the game and berated by the person in charge of the table. Again, this has happened at every single table I've tried, so I'm deleting my username. I have no issue with criticism, because I know I'm not an expert player and have a lot to learn, but I'm not in the business of taking garbage from people. There are other sites to play bridge- this one obviously is full of high-level players and people who don't think twice about saying exactly what's on their minds. I'm sorry I don't play at a high enough level for this website!! I wish I had a solution to the jerk behavior, but I don't see any change as long as one can go anonymously.



THere are 'Friendly' sites on here if you play Acol try the Acol Club or try BIL club (Beginner Intermediate Lounge)
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#20 User is offline   MzoMadness 

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Posted 2011-August-16, 12:22

Thanks to Shintaro and Mgoetze- I realize this was the clear answer to playing with people more at my experience level. Generally, I do have a thick skin IRL and have had experience with morons on the internet, but it was just a bit of a shock to see THAT much attitude right off the bat! I will definitely change my settings to the more relaxed areas of the site, now that I see that this option works.
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