[uday]

Pls don't vote unless you actually use Help-me-find-a-game to play, or unless you tend to open tables that don't need perms to sit ( which are populated by help-me-find-a-game )

HMFAG ( Help-me-find-a-game to play ) is invoked tens of thousands of times a day. For the casual player, it seems to be a popular way to "just sit and play" against random opps.

Our reasoning behind this change:

- incoming players that arrive in the middle of a hand as defenders or declarer cannot possibly defend or play. They need to manually redeal.

Unintended side effect:
- incoming players that arrive as dummy don't need to cause a redeal, but they do now anyway.


It isn't clear to me that players that arrive int the middle of the auction should force a redeal.


Anyway, let me know what you think. We received an above-average number of complaints about this change, and I'm trying to make sure we're doing what most of us want.

[uday]

FYI: I've temporarily disabled the redeal

[USViking]

uday, thank you for the reply, but I do not feel your points
are well-taken.

uday said:

Pls don't vote unless you actually use Help-me-find-a-game to play, or unless you tend to open tables that don't need perms to sit ( which are populated by help-me-find-a-game )

Anyone who is affected by the new system should be entitled
to speak, regardless of what option he may use to join a table.

I have in the past used the "Help me..." option.

I will never use it again because it of its role in the aggravation
being discussed here.

But why limit the new redeal system to people who use this option,
and not also extend it to the cases where people scroll the table list
and chose a table themselves, instead of having the computer chose
for them?

In either case, I do not mind at all playing a few tricks "blind".

uday said:

- incoming players that arrive in the middle of a hand as defenders or declarer cannot possibly defend or play. They need to manually redeal.

I addressed this before.

The incoming player is ONE person.

There are THREE other people at the table who have invested
time, thought and emotion in the deal.

The needs and wishes of THREE people should usually take priority
over the needs and wishes of ONE person, and I see no reason why
the BBO table procedure under discussion in this thread should be
an exception.

uday said:

Unintended side effect:
- incoming players that arrive as dummy don't need to cause a redeal, but they do now anyway... 

I think incoming players may also cause a redeal even if the bidding
has not started.

[USViking]

uday said:

FYI: I've temporarily disabled the redeal

Thanks very much for your attention to the issue.

[okarito]

hate hate HATE the change to redeal - thx for disabling it but pls pls pls make it a permanent disabling not a temporary one.

[helene_t]

Maybe the incoming playing just needs to play to the last trick, or he is just about to play his singleton to the second last trick. So I hate auto-redeal.

[babalu1997]

uday, on Feb 10 2010, 10:44 PM, said:

Pls don't vote unless you actually use Help-me-find-a-game to play, or unless you tend to open tables that don't need perms to sit ( which are populated by help-me-find-a-game )

HMFAG ( Help-me-find-a-game to play ) is invoked tens of thousands of times a day. For the casual player, it seems to be a popular way to "just sit and play" against random opps.

Our reasoning behind this change:

- incoming players that arrive in the middle of a hand as defenders or declarer cannot possibly defend or play. They need to manually redeal.

Unintended side effect:
- incoming players that arrive as dummy don't need to cause a redeal, but they do now anyway.


It isn't clear to me that players that arrive int the middle of the auction should force a redeal.


Anyway, let me know what you think. We received an above-average number of complaints about this change, and I'm trying to make sure we're doing what most of us want.

Pls don't vote unless you actually use Help-me-find-a-game to play, or unless you tend to open tables that don't need perms to sit ( which are populated by help-me-find-a-game )


There are other stakeholders other than these mentioned.
I never used the hmfag feature in the windows client, but have to do so in the web client because the tables do not refresh.
While I tend not to open tables without permission, sometimes i might change permission settings if I cannot attract opps-- remeber, i can no longer recruit them from the lobby.
While in the windows client, i like to browse and select available partners in tables that may or may not have permission settings, often i am beaten to the seat by the hmfag crew, but i can live with that.
Sometimes, when I do find a seat the partner might not like what he sees and he leaves, i can live with that, but the opps may suffer repeated redeals in this process.


- incoming players that arrive in the middle of a hand as defenders or declarer cannot possibly defend or play. They need to manually redeal.

With that I agree, they need to MANUALLY redeal, let them use their own finger and ask, if the rest of us do not agree, how inconvenient can it be for the hmfag fella to go and click the hmfag button again?

Some of them might not feel they need a redeal, i never ask for a redeal when i join a game in progress, i play it out, misdefend and misplay.


Unintended side effect:
- incoming players that arrive as dummy don't need to cause a redeal, but they do now anyway.


At first i thought like USviking, that one person was taking control and making decisions for a majortiy of three.

But then I realized it is worse than that.

All the guy did was click a button to join a table.

It was an Infinite Monkey who redealt the hand, who cares about the players he is there 24-7 imposing redeals on all concerned.

Sorry, i think the remedy is worse than the disease.

[matmat]

i would also be concerned about the possibility of people hunting for good hands.

help me find a game -- oh, i've got a yarb. BYE!
try again -- ooh, 2N opener, think i'll stay now.

[uday]

They'll do that regardless of whether their arrival at a table forced a redeal upon that table, I'd imagine.

[jjbrr]

Just so that your poll isn't biased only by people who feel affected by the changes, I have no problem with the redeals. I played for a couple hours yesterday and have no complaints, though I realize now I might have played after you disabled the feature.

I can sympathize with others and think it may be better to have a robot finish the hand rather than redeal, for example, with only a few cards left. But I won't be unhappy if you choose to keep the feature, and I won't be unhappy if you decide to remove it.

I hope I speak for everyone when I say that we appreciate all your hard work, Uday et al.

[Bbradley62]

It looks like this change was only in effect for a very short time, but I wanted to add my voice to those who oppose it. Since the manual redeal is available, there is no need for automatic, and, as many have suggested, there are many situations in which it is clearly not wanted.

[0 carbon]

If the new player would be declarer, she should be put in as dummy and dummy should become declarer.

This would get rid of 1/3 of the aggravation either way.

tOM

[klozetia]

i think this is one off most important problems at time of play and must be change if we going way of fair play. here plays so many players in so many competitions the same time neglected problem is unresponsible , we accepting lots of injustice scores . my question is why after hard work defenders often with mistakes in sequence play, wrong tempo or just simple play without any plan, why at one second behold me shows best defender in the world "GIB", easy to use just push button "claim" and adjust TD with help GIB one more time is ignore skills, both sides of course.
if strategy play to that moment was so much missed we must accept briliant finish of player who has no idea what was going on. lots of case is not simple else why we adjusting with help of GIB? we giving chance to rescue last few percent sometimes change null for max.
i know resignation from this option adds ammunition to those who delay the game, I'm bad in English but will try to toss the idea . ops claim, fine, now in can only reject or accept what when he is stubborn and replay claim without change and explain future play ? it's his claim if situation is problematics to solution problem now GIB should start defence with ask "what is your next card?" and after fine way claim is complete else GIB show score follows his wrong way.

[barmar]

I'm not sure what your post has to do with this discussion, which is over a year old. This is about players joining tables in the main bridge club, not tournaments. There is no TD to adjust scores at these tables.