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Reverse Flannery / Rodwell over 1D Changes to 2-way NMF because of new idle bids

#1 User is offline   jmc 

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Posted 2011-August-03, 13:39

Partner and I recently started playing 1D-2M as reverse Flannery / Rodwell over 1D. This has freed up several auctions in our two-way check back system as we no longer need to show both majors via check back.

For those of you playing reverse Flannery / Rodwell over 1D, what do you do with the empty sequences like 1D-1M-1NT-2C (forcing 2D)-2D-2 of the other Major and 1D-1M-1NT-2C (forcing 2D)-2D-3 of the other Major? What do you think these would be best used for?

We currently play that after 1D-1M-1NT:
2OM is game forcing and is a natural shape out.
3c, 3d, 3OM show game forcing, slam interest 5-5 or better.
3M shows a good major suit slam interest.

After 1D-1M-1NT-2C (forcing 2D)-2D-:
pass to play with diamonds
2M shows 5 and and invitational values
2OM ???
2NT weak with long clubs
3C clubs invitational, does not want a correction to the Major
3D diamonds invitational, does not want a correction to the Major
3M invitational with 6+ in the major.
3OM ???
3NT shows a 5332 willing to play 3NT

after 1D-1M-1NT-2D (game forcing 2D)
2M shows 3-card support
3OM ???
2NT minimum balanced

We play a fairly vanilla Berkowitz-Manley based transfer precision.
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#2 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2011-August-03, 13:45

6-4
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#3 User is offline   jmc 

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Posted 2011-August-03, 15:18

I think it is just as easy to show the game forcing 6-4 by bidding the 6-card suit then the 4-card suit and then the 6-card again. i.e.

1D-1S-1NT-2H-2NT-3S or 1D-1H-1NT-2S-2NT-3H. The new major is game forcing here as with an invitational or worse 6-4 one could start with either a Reverse Flannery 2H or 2S over 1D or bid 1H over 1D followed by 2H over 1NT.

View Postjjbrr, on 2011-August-03, 13:45, said:

6-4

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#4 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2011-August-03, 15:41

I don't think allowing for 6-4 in your reverse flannery bids is common.
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#5 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2011-August-03, 15:49

View Postjjbrr, on 2011-August-03, 15:41, said:

I don't think allowing for 6-4 in your reverse flannery bids is common.


I always did:

2N asks, and
--3C: 5=4=1=3
--3D: 5=4=3=1
--3H: 5=4=2=2 min
--3S: 6=4=(21)
--3N: 5=4=2=2 max
--4C: 5=5=2=1
--4D: 5=5=1=2

Definitely interested to hear what you do if you don't allow 6-4 though.
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#6 User is offline   jmc 

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Posted 2011-August-03, 19:58

We do allow for 6-4 spades and hearts in the reverse Flannery auctions 1D-2H (5-10-) or 2S(10+-12-). This allows us to bid the 6-4 game forcing hands without using check back. This opens up several check back auctions that now have no meaning. I would like to have suggestions on how to use those idle bids. I have some ideas but didn't want to poison the well until others had a chance for suggestions.

View Postwyman, on 2011-August-03, 15:49, said:

I always did:

2N asks, and
--3C: 5=4=1=3
--3D: 5=4=3=1
--3H: 5=4=2=2 min
--3S: 6=4=(21)
--3N: 5=4=2=2 max
--4C: 5=5=2=1
--4D: 5=5=1=2

Definitely interested to hear what you do if you don't allow 6-4 though.

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#7 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2011-August-03, 21:33

View Postjmc, on 2011-August-03, 13:39, said:

Partner and I recently started playing 1D-2M as reverse Flannery / Rodwell over 1D. This has freed up several auctions in our two-way check back system as we no longer need to show both majors via check back.

For those of you playing reverse Flannery / Rodwell over 1D, what do you do with the empty sequences like 1D-1M-1NT-2C (forcing 2D)-2D-2 of the other Major and 1D-1M-1NT-2C (forcing 2D)-2D-3 of the other Major? What do you think these would be best used for?

We currently play that after 1D-1M-1NT:
2OM is game forcing and is a natural shape out.
3c, 3d, 3OM show game forcing, slam interest 5-5 or better.
3M shows a good major suit slam interest.

After 1D-1M-1NT-2C (forcing 2D)-2D-:
pass to play with diamonds
2M shows 5 and and invitational values
2OM ???
2NT weak with long clubs
3C clubs invitational, does not want a correction to the Major
3D diamonds invitational, does not want a correction to the Major
3M invitational with 6+ in the major.
3OM ???
3NT shows a 5332 willing to play 3NT

after 1D-1M-1NT-2D (game forcing 2D)
2M shows 3-card support
3OM ???
2NT minimum balanced

We play a fairly vanilla Berkowitz-Manley based transfer precision.





playing reverse flannery it appears you have no way to show an invite with 5s and 4h.

We just rebid 2h as good invite and at least 5-4.


I assume you play 1minor=2h as less than invite....and 1minor =2s as not reverse flannery, I dont.


IN any event ya we have several auctions that are basically undiscussed or duplicated......we await a big need to define and stress my old memory...
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#8 User is offline   jmc 

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Posted 2011-August-03, 22:25

1D-2H is 5+S 4+H and 5-10-
1D-2S is 5+S 4+H and 10-12- This functions as an invite with at least 5-4 in the majors. 12+ hands start with 1S and rebid a game forcing 2H over partner's 1NT.



View Postmike777, on 2011-August-03, 21:33, said:

playing reverse flannery it appears you have no way to show an invite with 5s and 4h.

We just rebid 2h as good invite and at least 5-4.


I assume you play 1minor=2h as less than invite....and 1minor =2s as not reverse flannery, I dont.


IN any event ya we have several auctions that are basically undiscussed or duplicated......we await a big need to define and stress my old memory...

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#9 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-August-04, 04:47

Playing strong club then:

-Obv your main priority over 2D is to show whether you have 3 or less of partners major.
-Your 2nd main priority is to show whether you have a 5 card minor or not.
-Another priority to me is to minimize information leakage when possible.
-Obv you should never show whether you have 4 hearts or not, this is a big advantage for your system.
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#10 User is offline   DanHarting 

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Posted 2011-August-17, 22:35


Isn't the cornerstone of (any type of) Flannery responder's preference for one major over the other?
(Here, spades over hearts?)

If you define reverse Flannery shape as "4+ hearts, with longer spades," then:

Opener corrects with 2s and 3s, and it is safe to include 6-4 and even 6-5 hands in the 2 and 2 responses.

Now 1-1; 1NT-2 and 1-1; 1NT-2; 2 - 2 are 5-5, weak and invitational.

Yes, responder is poorly placed with 5-5 (weak) after 1-1; 2. And the 5-5 is somewhat more common than the 6-4. But responder might be able to stretch and bid 3 if that is a natural invite for you.
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