[sceptic]

Hi, what do you do if you cant signal as agreed because your spare cards are a bit ambiguous?

and then how can you tell if your partner has signalled using a card that is ambiguous?

[bearmum]

sceptic, on Sep 27 2004, 10:24 PM, said:

Hi, what do you do if you cant signal as agreed because your spare cards are a bit ambiguous?

and then how can you tell if your partner has signalled using a card that is ambiguous?

I will answer this as if you had asked about DISCARD signals ( rather than enc/disc ones) --- guess you need to find a system which allows you to chose more than ONE suit for signals as it is NORMALLY easier to find an unambiguous card for your first discard

[Gerben47]

You make your signal as agreed and hope partner can read it. He might have the missing low or high cards. And if he doesn't, you can clear up your signal with your next card(s). Don't play signals using odd and even cards, as these are unambiguous and cannot be cleared up.

If you play low-high signals, remember that from two cards one is always highest and another lowest. If both are even and you need an odd card, one of the even card is not more odd than the other...

[inquiry]

Quote

Hi, what do you do if you cant signal as agreed because your spare cards are a bit ambiguous?

(sarcastic mode on)... I sit and fidget, pulling one card then the other. Eventually, I play as good a card as I could even though it is ambigous.

Quote

and then how can you tell if your partner has signalled using a card that is ambiguous?

(still on).. no need to worry, step one has solved the problem. Partner will have worked out whay my proble was (now going off)....


Ok,, that would be illegal, but that is what happens everday 1000 times when this situation comes up. Of course none of us will do that. Your partner can see the spot cards in his hand, the sopt cards in dummy, and he can usually infer from the bidding and the fall of the cards on the first trick, about how many small cards declerer might have in the suit. Usually, but not always, he can work it out. For instance, playing odd/even carding.. if someone can see the 3,5.7, and 9 between dummy and his hand, he will know you can not give an odd card signal if you wanted too...

Ben

[pclayton]

This can sometimes happen when you play odd / even, or Lavinthal. With udca; frequently pard can still read the card, due to the relative size of the spot.

Sometimes you have to give an 'impossible' signal, and hope partner can work it out.

[xx1943]

inquiry, on Sep 27 2004, 03:12 PM, said:

Usually, but not always, he can work it out. For instance, playing odd/even carding.. if someone can see the 3,5.7, and 9 between dummy and his hand, he will know you can not give an odd card signal if you wanted too...

Ben

Hi Ben

mostly u can work it out if combining odd/even with roman. Then you have many choices to show interest in a special suit.

E.g. Spades are trump.

You like ♥, throw : ♥9,7,5,3, ; ♦ 10,8,6(?); ♣10;8,(6)
You like ♦, throw: ♦9,7,5,3, ; ♥ 10,8,6(?); ♣2;4,6(?)
You like ♣, throw: ♣9,7,5,3, ; ♥ 2,4,6(?); ♣2;4,6(?)

One of these 10 cards is normally available and btw. much more important than signals is to count (tricks, HCP, distribution ...), think logical and imagine, what is going on.

Cheers

Al

[inquiry]

xx1943, on Sep 27 2004, 10:43 AM, said:

inquiry, on Sep 27 2004, 03:12 PM, said:

Usually, but not always, he can work it out. For instance, playing odd/even carding.. if someone can see the 3,5.7, and 9 between dummy and his hand, he will know you can not give an odd card signal if you wanted too...

Ben

Hi Ben

mostly u can work it out if combining odd/even with roman. Then you have many choices to show interest in a special suit.

E.g. Spades are trump.

You like ♥, throw : ♥9,7,5,3, ; ♦ 10,8,6(?); ♣10;8,(6)
You like ♦, throw: ♦9,7,5,3, ; ♥ 10,8,6(?); ♣2;4,6(?)
You like ♣, throw: ♣9,7,5,3, ; ♥ 2,4,6(?); ♣2;4,6(?)

One of these 10 cards is normally available and btw. much more important than signals is to count (tricks, HCP, distribution ...), think logical and imagine, what is going on.

Cheers

Al

Yes.. that is roman discards.. where you have three suits to choose from.. I was talking about roman follow suit signals here...but priniciple same with standard or with udca.. if you want your partner to continue suit, sometimes the only spot card you have is the two... if you play udca, great.. if not, whoops.. or the only spot card you have is the 9.. if you play standard, great, if not, whoops..

Ben

[xx1943]

inquiry, on Sep 27 2004, 04:53 PM, said:

I was talking about roman follow suit signals here...

Hi Ben

roman follow-suit-signals shld be forbidden for the reason of hesitating .... you described in your previous post.

cheers

Al

[paulg]

sceptic, on Sep 27 2004, 10:24 AM, said:

Hi, what do you do if you cant signal as agreed because your spare cards are a bit ambiguous?

and then how can you tell if your partner has signalled using a card that is ambiguous?

The generally accepted practice (in the UK) is to peter (play high-low) if you are able to play two cards.

For example, playing odd-even discards with no appropriate card to play, play high-low in one suit and hope partner works it out.

p

[Flame]

Dont Signal with a card you might need, its that simple.
Partner suppose to read the situation.
You need a good signaling method which define the order of cards from incarage to discarage, for example if you play odd inc, then 3 is more incarage then 5 7 and 9, if i throw the 9 , partner checking the spots missing might understand that i actually discarage the suit.
In general dont overrate signaling, they are only second to normal carding, some good players dont even use signaling at all (atleast at total score or imp) some like me rarly give count.

[scoob]

i generally play o/e roman discards, so this doesn't come up often, but when it does i try to make a point of signalling something which my partner should be able to surmise is entirely impossible.

ie, encouraging a suit that dummy has strong honours in, etc.