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Garbage Stayman Bad Idea Over 1NT Overcall?

#1 User is offline   VM1973 

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Posted 2011-July-23, 07:51

I believe it is common to bid Stayman holding 4-4-4-1 over a strong NT but does that hold for a 1NT overcall?



Assuming North and West had bid like sane people, we probably would have ended up in 2 diamonds.
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#2 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2011-July-23, 08:29

At the risk of repeating myself, it is a BAD idea to play with a random partner against random opponents and expect to encounter anything resembling sensible bridge.

While garbage stayman is common, it is not standard and you probably shouldn't assume your random partner will understand that it is an option. Furthermore, a lot of people do not play that systems are on after a 1NT overcall, which appears to have been the case here.
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#3 User is offline   VM1973 

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Posted 2011-July-23, 08:35

I believe the standard method, is that a cuebid of the opponent's suit is Stayman. I might be wrong.
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#4 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2011-July-23, 08:41

View PostVM1973, on 2011-July-23, 08:35, said:

I believe the standard method, is that a cuebid of the opponent's suit is Stayman. I might be wrong.


That generally applies at the three level, I think, in the context of lebensohl.

1n-[2h]-3h (stopperless stayman)

1n-[2h]-2n-[p]
3c-[p]-3h (stopperful stayman)

I've played systems on over overcalls for so long I don't actually remember what the standard system is at the 2 level.

In your particular case it's somewhat ridiculous that partner didn't read the call as artificial when they heard a 1 opener on their right and they are looking at AKJxxx in their hand. It would not be unreasonable for them to play you for full stayman values and blast 3n, but 5 is ... err ... yes... some word that bbo doesn't let me use.
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-July-23, 08:47

Whether systems are on or not for you or for partner after a NT overcall, I think 2C would be used by most people on my planet as Stayman. So, bidding 2C seems o.k. Whether partner is in on the secret that you could be weak should not have mattered because the only rebids (uncontested) are 2D or 2M --and you intend to pass either.

Now for the sanity issue:

West had no more bids. He is sort of lucky East had some stuff. (will stick with "lucky" and not go the other place)
North, having the same overcall he started with and no 4-card major, should have passed 2H awaiting what South's next action would be.

You would have been defending 2H. True, on this hand +50 in two hearts or playing in 2D would not have been as good as declaring 1NT, But that doesn't make your attempt with the bad 4-4-4-1 wrong over the long run. And, maybe this West would have tried 2H anyway (given that we know he is insane).
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#6 User is offline   VM1973 

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Posted 2011-July-23, 11:30

Am I right in believing that marking bad opponents enemies means I won't ever partner them again?
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#7 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-July-23, 11:49

If you are playing in an individual tournament, your enemy designations are not relevant.
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