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What's standard Gazzilli Or does everyone play it differently?

#1 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-November-11, 17:01

You play for the first time with a strong partner with a similar bridge background to your own. Unfortunately, there wasn't much time to discuss before the game so all you managed to agree was that you play "2/1 Walsh Gazzilli UDCA".

OK, so, what are you playing? What are your possible rebids after 1M-1NT/1-1 and how does the bidding continue after a 2 rebid?
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#2 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2010-November-11, 21:22

There are many variations of Gazzilli so I personally wouldn't have agreed to play that with a first time partnership without any form of discussion of it so I will wait until a break to discuss that :)
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#3 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 08:38

Standard is
- 1M-1X-2 is nat or 16+ => 2 response is 8+. Other continuations are less than 8HCP, natural (2NT usually minor oriented), and tend to show a 2-card support for opener's Major.
- 1M-1X-2-2-2M shows <16HCP and were natural.
- 1M-1X-2-2-2OM shows a 3 card suit (except 1-1NT-2-2-2 showing 4), the rest denies a 3 card OM.
- 1M-1X-2NT shows a good hand with 6M-4m
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#4 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 11:48

Gazilli can only be played when you have a system script. Don't try it otherwise.
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#5 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 12:43

View PostGerben42, on 2010-November-15, 11:48, said:

Gazilli can only be played when you have a system script. Don't try it otherwise.


Unfortunately it's rather difficult to write such a script because there seems to be quite little discussion available about what the various possible structures are and their relative advantages and disadvantages.
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#6 User is offline   glen 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 16:54

Stacy's notes:

http://stacyjacobs.c...-suit-openings/

Now Stacy is not a systems maven yet she's able to have a scriptazzilli
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#7 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 17:14

View Postglen, on 2010-November-15, 16:54, said:

Stacy's notes:

http://stacyjacobs.c...-suit-openings/

Now Stacy is not a systems maven yet she's able to have a scriptazzilli


That's funny, she writes

Quote

I canít imagine how one would just slip Gazzilli into a standard 2/1 major suit structure, if you do and it works for you thatís terrific. Below youíll find our complete major suit notes so you can see the treatment in its entire context.


Yet, I could imagine playing more or less that Gazzilli structure while I wouldn't be caught dead played 1M-3 as a 3-card limit raise. ;)

Anyway - thanks for the link. Any others?
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#8 User is offline   glen 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 17:28

View Postmgoetze, on 2010-November-15, 17:14, said:

... Any others?

Free's
http://freebridge.bl...8/gazzilli.html

India talks Italian:
http://www.bridgeguy...GazzilliND1.pdf
http://www.bridgeguy...GazzilliND2.pdf
http://www.bridgeguy...GazzilliND3.pdf

For these pdfs, scroll to the article
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#9 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 17:48

View Postglen, on 2010-November-15, 17:28, said:



I've seen these. While I do appreciate the Bridge Guys for covering as many conventions as possible, I've found that they often sacrifice quality in order to do it. This write-up didn't convince me at all. ;)
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#10 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 20:11

Clairebridge and Bridge with Dan are 2 sites generally worth checking early for any bidding stuff. Dan has Gazzilli zipped up on his systems page.
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#11 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-November-15, 20:23

View PostZelandakh, on 2010-November-15, 20:11, said:

Clairebridge and Bridge with Dan are 2 sites generally worth checking early for any bidding stuff. Dan has Gazzilli zipped up on his systems page.


There are many reasons to hate the gratuitious use of zip - one of them is that you might have noticed these are the same articles as on Bridgeguys if they weren't zipped. ;)
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#12 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 03:52

This isn't Gazilli, but it is definitely my favourite after 1-1

1NT = Transfer to clubs, shows 4+ clubs, unlimited*.
2 = Transfer to diamonds, shows 4+ diamonds, unlimited*.
2 = Transfer to hearts, shows all hands not otherwise mentioned, unlimited*.
2 = Minimum with 3-card spade-support.

* These unlimited bids are of course limited by not opening 2.

The only thing you loose, is the ability to play 1NT, but all your other bidding becomes more accurate.

I use all 2+ bids to show spades-support (with 3 hearts showing 6 hearts and only 3 spades), but I wouldn't mind changing that, if partner insisted.

Continuations:

On 1NT and 2 responder bids what he would normally have bid on 2 and 2. Completing the transfer shows he would have passed. Responder need not go to great length to find an alternative to completing the transfer, as partner has another chance to bid.

Likewise on 2, but note the sequence:

1-1
2-2
2 = 3 card-spade support and more than a minimum.

This is one of my all time favourites:

- You free a lot of 4-card support bids, including minisplinter.
- Minor suits are shown unambigously.
- Three-card supports are shown unambigously, and you can play 2, when responder is 4-2-x-x or 4-3-x-x and has decided to bid 1.
- In non-fit auctions, you keep the bidding low, allowing more for exploration.
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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


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#13 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 04:15

Ole, isn't this only possible if you play 1M as unbalanced like you do? Most people get scared if they have to open 1 with a 5M332 hand. ;)
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#14 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 06:03

View PostFree, on 2010-November-16, 04:15, said:

Ole, isn't this only possible if you play 1M as unbalanced like you do? Most people get scared if they have to open 1 with a 5M332 hand. ;)


I include the 2-5-3-3 in the 2 transfer after 1-1.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


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#15 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 08:05

View PostOleBerg, on 2010-November-16, 03:52, said:

This isn't Gazilli, but it is definitely my favourite after 1-1

1NT = Transfer to clubs, shows 4+ clubs, unlimited*.
2 = Transfer to diamonds, shows 4+ diamonds, unlimited*.
2 = Transfer to hearts, shows all hands not otherwise mentioned, unlimited*.
2 = Minimum with 3-card spade-support.

* These unlimited bids are of course limited by not opening 2.


This reminds me of Izdebski Transfers as promoted by the_hog.
Which hands, if any, are allowed to break the transfer? I ask especially in light of:

View PostOleBerg, on 2010-November-16, 06:03, said:

I include the 2-5-3-3 in the 2 transfer after 1-1.


I feel that your method would be quite good at IMPs, but that I would not be willing to give up the natural 1NT at MPs.
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#16 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-November-16, 10:00

View Postmgoetze, on 2010-November-16, 08:05, said:

This reminds me of Izdebski Transfers as promoted by the_hog.
Which hands, if any, are allowed to break the transfer? I ask especially in light of:



I feel that your method would be quite good at IMPs, but that I would not be willing to give up the natural 1NT at MPs.


Many hands are allowed to break the transfer. You only complete the transfer, if you would have passed the rebid partner is transfering to. Otherwise you bid what you would have bid, if partner had made the natural bid.

Example:

1 - 1
2 - ???

2 = I would have passed a natural 2 rebid.
2+ = This is the bid I would have made, if you had made a normal 2 rebid.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


Gnasher
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#17 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2010-November-17, 10:49

A few weeks ago this was posted at rec.games.bridge :

Gazzilli worth the effort?

by Scott Needham

http://groups.google...d2dc18fbd0e02a#
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

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