[gurgistan]

Scoring: IMP

This is with a semi-regular partner.

It is passed out to West who opens 1♦. Partner bids 2♦. East doubles. I bid 2♠. West bids 3♦. Partner bids 3♠. It is passed out.

Could someone comment on the bidding please?

---

[hrothgar]

Many good players would choose to open the North hand 1♠. With this said and done...

After the Michaels cue bid 2♠ seems very timid. You know you have a double fit in Spades and Hearts. You know you have a nine card Spade fit. You know you have QTx in Hearts.

After partner bids 3♠, pass is unthinkable. You have enormous extras, Txx in Diamonds (opposite partner's presumed void) is an amazing plus.

From my perspective, passing 3♠ is the single worst bid, however, I am having enormous difficultly finding any action that I like.

[spotlight7]

Hi:

If partner is trusted to have 5-5+, 3S at your first chance takes away a lot of their bidding room. It is a close decision
with 4333 shape, however, you hold no wasted D values. This is fair hand with a 'double fit' in the majors.

The 3S call is a big overbid by your partner. You might bid 2S with xx in spades.
If East held defensive cards, 3S could go for a big penalty even with you
holding xxx of spades.

Regards,
Robert

[aguahombre]

hrothgar, on Sep 20 2010, 03:52 PM, said:

Many good players would choose to open the North hand 1♠. With this said and done...

After the Michaels cue bid 2♠ seems very timid. You know you have a double fit in Spades and Hearts. You know you have a nine card Spade fit. You know you have QTx in Hearts.

After partner bids 3♠, pass is unthinkable. You have enormous extras, Txx in Diamonds (opposite partner's presumed void) is an amazing plus.

From my perspective, passing 3♠ is the single worst bid, however, I am having enormous difficultly finding a action that I like.

all of that. North's original pass would not be my choice, but South just sat there like a statue.

[peachy]

I would open the N hand, and I am certain so would most other people. As it turns out, we can still recover after N passed. South failed to appreciate the double fit, he cannot just give a tepid preference to spades with such a good hand. Well, he can and he did, but it was not a good choice.

[pooltuna]

hrothgar, on Sep 20 2010, 04:52 PM, said:

Many good players would choose to open the North hand 1♠. With this said and done...

After the Michaels cue bid 2♠ seems very timid. You know you have a double fit in Spades and Hearts. You know you have a nine card Spade fit. You know you have QTx in Hearts.

After partner bids 3♠, pass is unthinkable. You have enormous extras, Txx in Diamonds (opposite partner's presumed void) is an amazing plus.

From my perspective, passing 3♠ is the single worst bid, however, I am having enormous difficultly finding any action that I like.

with the caveat that the OP apparently is not playing split range Michaels how much do you like it and what is the difference if your minors were swapped

[hrothgar]

pooltuna, on Sep 21 2010, 01:10 AM, said:

hrothgar, on Sep 20 2010, 04:52 PM, said:

Many good players would choose to open the North hand 1♠.  With this said and done...

After the Michaels cue bid 2♠ seems very timid.  You know you have a double fit in Spades and Hearts.  You know you have a nine card Spade fit.  You know you have QTx in Hearts.

After partner bids 3♠, pass is unthinkable.  You have enormous extras, Txx in Diamonds (opposite partner's presumed void) is an amazing plus. 

From my perspective, passing 3♠ is the single worst bid, however, I am having enormous difficultly finding any action that I like.

with the caveat that the OP apparently is not playing split range Michaels how much do you like it and what is the difference if your minors were swapped

Comment 1: How many people play a split ranged Michaels by a passed hand?

Comment 2: Seems like I already cited Txx in Diamonds as a reason to upgrade... One might infer that swapping the minors would be cause for adjustment.

[campboy]

I don't think South's final pass is so bad. North hasn't opened; he doesn't have strength for his raise to 3♠, so he must have extra shape. Quite likely he's 6601, and for 6-6 in the majors that isn't worth opening he isn't going to have that much honour strength in his suits. I'd be expecting something like Kxxxxx, Kxxxxx, --, x.

[jdonn]

I think it's clear south should bid game at the end. Otherwise I don't mind the auction although I would always open north's hand.

[bucky]

jdonn, on Sep 20 2010, 05:50 PM, said:

I think it's clear south should bid game at the end. Otherwise I don't mind the auction although I would always open north's hand.

Hmm, you agree with North's 3♠ bid? If 2♦ shows 5-5, why does North have to bid 3♠ to repeat the same message?

To me, 3♠ should show extra shape, something like 6-5 in the majors (and weaker suits since I would definitely have opened with 6-5 shape and SAQ/HKJ).

I do agree that South should bid 4♠, given North's 3♠ bid (which in my view is wrong).

[aguahombre]

yeh, After failing to open it seems North tried to catch up by bidding the same hand twice. But South twice failed to bid his hand.

[jdonn]

bucky, on Sep 20 2010, 07:41 PM, said:

jdonn, on Sep 20 2010, 05:50 PM, said:

I think it's clear south should bid game at the end. Otherwise I don't mind the auction although I would always open north's hand.

Hmm, you agree with North's 3♠ bid? If 2♦ shows 5-5, why does North have to bid 3♠ to repeat the same message?

To me, 3♠ should show extra shape, something like 6-5 in the majors (and weaker suits since I would definitely have opened with 6-5 shape and SAQ/HKJ).

I do agree that South should bid 4♠, given North's 3♠ bid (which in my view is wrong).

Because he has a void, that is extra shape. Also he is a passed hand so there is no danger partner will play him for more. I would certainly bid 3♠ as a passed hand.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 I would have opened the North hand, and I consider myself
conservative, if it comes to 1 level openings, at least compared
with players I encounter on the table.
#2 2S did not show the fit, it merely showed a preference for spades,
hence bidding 3S was playing with fire, he should pass.
#3 Given the flat shape and facing a passed hand, 2S is enough, unless
the X showed the diamond fit, it is not even clear, that we will face
a diamond shortage.
The 3S bid should come from South, I would not raise the 3S bid to
game, but than I would not have passed with the North hand in the first
place.
Claiming that South acted like a statue, ... maybe, but maybe he did not
expect a super max. hand either
After they showed their diamond fit, South can upgrade the clubs honor,
..., but I still would pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Fluffy]

2♦ doesn't promise 5-5

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on Sep 21 2010, 07:08 AM, said:

2♦ doesn't promise 5-5

I think you mean YOU don't promise 5-5.

[P_Marlowe]

aguahombre, on Sep 21 2010, 09:58 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Sep 21 2010, 07:08 AM, said:

2♦ doesn't promise 5-5

I think you mean YOU don't promise 5-5.

Me neither.

But we are Red vs. Green, so 5-5 is the most likely shape.

And taking the vulnerability into account the 3S bid from North
becomes even more insane without a known fit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdonn]

Fluffy, on Sep 21 2010, 08:08 AM, said:

2♦ doesn't promise 5-5

Fluffy

[bucky]

jdonn, on Sep 20 2010, 08:21 PM, said:

Because he has a void, that is extra shape. Also he is a passed hand so there is no danger partner will play him for more. I would certainly bid 3♠ as a passed hand.

Wouldn't it be better to use X to show this? This way you express desire to compete but doesn't overstate your shape. Of course if this is an unpassed hand, you need a much stronger hand for X, but as a passed hand, I think you have enough value for this action, and keep the bidding flexible. Then 3♥/3♠ can be reserved to show extra shape in terms of length.

[gurgistan]

I have looked at my notes and they state that with 0-12 hcp and 3 card support I should bid partner's suit. I had 9hcp and a 4 card suit. I bid his suit. I think that as he is a passed hand that he is more likely at the lower end of the Michaels scale (8-12hcp and 5-5). With his 3♠, I just see him as competing.

I seem to be completely out of step with much that has been said.

The schema I am using is (as responder to Michaels):

Show support: 0-12 hcp with 3 card support
Jump Raise: 13-15 hcp
Bid Game: 16+hcp

Could someone please provide a better schema?

Many thanks.

[aguahombre]

A better scheme would be to look WHERE your points are, in light of what partner is showing. Plus, it wouldn't hurt to notice you have 4-card support, not 3.

"To Bid or Not to Bid", by Larry Cohen is a good starter for the Law of Total Tricks. While it is a fact that many posters sneer at the Law being applied rigidly (me too), that book is a must for developing judgement in competitive auctions --or auctions what are likely to become competitive..