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What now?

#1 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 13:25

AQ x JT8xx xxxxx

w/w imps, starting with partner:

1S (2C) p (2H)
X (4H) ?
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#2 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 14:27

I'd try 4NT. No idea what it means, but it can't be natural. I hope it suggests diamonds with tolerance and better than 5 directly.
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#3 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 14:46

Disagree with 4NT showing diamonds with spade tolerance. If we have four spades we can maybe bid 4. If we have three spades (or two!) we don't want to play 5.

Assuming that 2 is natural I bid 5.
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#4 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 15:43

4NT, showing minors with tolerance for minors :)
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#5 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 16:11

helene_t, on Jan 30 2010, 03:46 PM, said:

Disagree with 4NT showing diamonds with spade tolerance. If we have four spades we can maybe bid 4. If we have three spades (or two!) we don't want to play 5.

Assuming that 2 is natural I bid 5.

with 3 i think it's crystal clear to bid 4 or more . 4NT, in my mind, implies exactly 2. You may disagree with that, but that is what I meant by tolerance.
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#6 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 16:15

If you bid 4N please state how you mean it (some kind of slam try in diamonds, or something that implies a doubleton spade).
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#7 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 16:20

oh sorry I suck, I somehow thought the opening bid was 1NT.
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#8 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 16:21

I don't think it is clear to bid anything. Partner doubled at the 2-level. He didn't know our next bid was going to come at the 4-level. He does not have to have all that big of hand for his actions and with no good known fit it seems more like guesswork to me that we have action that needs to be taken.

I think pass is best.
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#9 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 16:32

Winstonm, on Jan 30 2010, 10:21 PM, said:

I don't think it is clear to bid anything.  Partner doubled at the 2-level.  He didn't know our next bid was going to come at the 4-level.  He does not have to have all that big of hand for his actions and with no good known fit it seems more like guesswork to me that we have action that needs to be taken.

I think pass is best.

Granted that partner doesn't have to have a huge hand, but you have one!

If I had to choose between Passing and bidding 6D, I would certainly choose 6D. I might even choose 7D over Pass.

Fortunately you have a few choices in between :)

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#10 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 17:55

fred, on Jan 30 2010, 05:32 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Jan 30 2010, 10:21 PM, said:

I don't think it is clear to bid anything.  Partner doubled at the 2-level.  He didn't know our next bid was going to come at the 4-level.  He does not have to have all that big of hand for his actions and with no good known fit it seems more like guesswork to me that we have action that needs to be taken.

I think pass is best.

Granted that partner doesn't have to have a huge hand, but you have one!

If I had to choose between Passing and bidding 6D, I would certainly choose 6D. I might even choose 7D over Pass.

Fortunately you have a few choices in between :)

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
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Glad you posted this I kind of thought even 4N/5C was not enough and that 6D was the right bid... is that going overboard?
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#11 User is offline   fred 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 19:09

PhantomSac, on Jan 30 2010, 11:55 PM, said:

fred, on Jan 30 2010, 05:32 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Jan 30 2010, 10:21 PM, said:

I don't think it is clear to bid anything.  Partner doubled at the 2-level.  He didn't know our next bid was going to come at the 4-level.  He does not have to have all that big of hand for his actions and with no good known fit it seems more like guesswork to me that we have action that needs to be taken.

I think pass is best.

Granted that partner doesn't have to have a huge hand, but you have one!

If I had to choose between Passing and bidding 6D, I would certainly choose 6D. I might even choose 7D over Pass.

Fortunately you have a few choices in between :)

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

Glad you posted this I kind of thought even 4N/5C was not enough and that 6D was the right bid... is that going overboard?

Well Ms. Sac, my sense is that a slam try is enough, but it would not surprise me if someone might be able to convince me otherwise (or that I eventually convince myself).

My reasoning is mostly based on thinking that, if I make a slam try and partner signs off in 5D, I don't think we can be missing a cold slam (though we could easily be missing a playable slam - maybe involving playing trumps for no losers opposite AKxx or AQxx).

I think 4NT is a better bid than 5C, both because it would be nice to have the Ace of clubs for 5C and also because 4NT gives partner room to bid 5C if he not sure how many diamonds to bid.

Actually this last point (about partner being able to bid 5C over 4NT), makes me feel more strongly about not driving to slam than I felt when I wrote the first paragraph of this post.

Fred Gitelman
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#12 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 19:12

I was partner, I had K9xxxx Axx AQxx ---, I think I would bid 5C over 4N, and would just bid 5D over 5C, so I agree wrt to 4N>5C.
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#13 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 20:23

I originally bid 4NT because I wanted partner to be able to bid 5. I admit it was a mistake not to include this in my explanation, but I'm glad you agree with my unstated thought process.
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#14 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 21:11

Quote

f I had to choose between Passing and bidding 6D, I would certainly choose 6D.


Quote

I was partner, I had K9xxxx Axx AQxx



Reaching 6D looks an overbid. After all, all partner did was make a double at the 2-level. I like my hand OK, but it is about a King short of getting excited with unless partner can act again over 4H IMO.
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#15 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 21:26

I feel this hand is worth slightly more than a 5.5 bid. The only reason I don't just bid 6 is I don't want to go minus. I don't think it's a king short of anything except a grand try, depending on which king it is.
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#16 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 21:33

Winston you are GROSSLY underestimating how much partner is showing. He really can't have less than he did. He is doubling into the middle of the opponents' live auction, having already opened the bidding, when no one has shown a fit yet.
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#17 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 21:43

Quote

Granted that partner doesn't have to have a huge hand, but you have one!


I have certainly been wrong before and may be again this time, but in my experience partner is more likely to be 6331 or 5341 than 6340. While I like my hand pretty well and can recognize it fits with partners suits, it does not fit well enough to prompt me to play a 5-3 diamond fit or a 5-2 spade fit at high levels.

If I were inclined to bid, I would be more prone to 4S than any other bid. Of course, If the double of 2H guarantees 4 diamonds, I am wrong and my assessment of the situation would change.
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#18 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2010-January-30, 21:45

jdonn, on Jan 30 2010, 10:33 PM, said:

Winston you are GROSSLY underestimating how much partner is showing. He really can't have less than he did. He is doubling into the middle of the opponents' live auction, having already opened the bidding, when no one has shown a fit yet.

You are most likely right - I am sure I did not give this hand enough thought. When you start looking at 6331 and 5341 hands they really aren't good enough with which to double in this auction.
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#19 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2010-January-31, 00:17

Jeremy if you think 4N shows a good 5D bid why do you think it shows a doubleton spade also? What would you do with a good 5D bid that didn't have a doubleton spade?
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#20 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-January-31, 01:04

ya i guess it doesnt preclude . i could certainly pull whatever you bid back to X.

i just think 4N is showing good something, as opposed to placing the contract which shows bad something. i dont think i can bid 4N with stiff x in and relative length in their suits, though. right? construct a hand where i have stiff and still a slam try. there arent many hands.

i just dont know what target youre aiming at that has x<2<x spades. its almost nonexistent.
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