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3 suited hand

#1 User is offline   jdaming 

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Posted 2009-February-22, 23:57

Scoring: IMP


First seat assuming you open a you here a forcing 1NT what is your rebid?
All IMO. Junior wanting to soak up all the knowledge he can.
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#2 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 00:06

2H. If the 4-card suit had been a minor, then 2S.
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#3 User is offline   dicklont 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 02:21

2. You don't know yet how weak/strong responder is.

Over 2 invite with 3, responder is showing his weakest raise, pass could be best.
Over 3 raise to game.
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#4 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 02:30

2h


I hope this shows hearts
'
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#5 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 05:26

With the second suit being a major, 2 will be obvious to anybody. Well, not anybody, there are always people who have another opinion, but as close to 100 % as possible in this forum.

When the second suit is a minor, taste differs.
I like to show the second suit, because:
1. It describes 9 cards from your hand, not just 6.
2. It is much easier to show your 6. spade later then to show a second suit later.
3. When you belong in spades, you may still reach this goal after bidding your second suit now. When you belong in your second suit, it is now or never.
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#6 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 08:10

Roland's reasoning is flawless IMO... I agree 100% with him.

I will raise 3 to 4
I will raise 2 to 3
I will bid 3 over 2NT
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
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#7 User is offline   qwery_hi 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 09:45

Same, except I would pass 2,
Alle Menschen werden bruder.

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#8 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 10:01

I like to show as much cards as I can to deprive partner from thinking that diamonds might be a good strain.

I would pass 2 from partner (partner could have only 4 HCP!)
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#9 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 12:29

2 -- in this auction partner should normally take a preference to 2 with 2-3 in the majors.
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#10 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 13:10

2 wtp
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#11 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 13:20

Codo, on Feb 23 2009, 06:26 AM, said:

With the second suit being a major, 2 will be obvious to anybody. Well, not anybody, there are always people who have another opinion, but as close to 100 % as possible in this forum.

When the second suit is a minor, taste differs.
I like to show the second suit, because:
1. It describes 9 cards from your hand, not just 6.
2. It is much easier to show your 6. spade later then to show a second suit later.
3. When you belong in spades, you may still reach this goal after bidding your second suit now. When you belong in your second suit, it is now or never.

Good bridge authors recommend rebid of the 6-card major UNLESS the 4-card suit is hearts ("never" bypass hearts) and with better than minimum, rebid the 4-card suit. Judgment exceptions exist in this or any other bidding priciple, for example 10xxxxx-AKJ10 or AKQ109x-7xxx.
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#12 User is offline   jdaming 

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Posted 2009-February-23, 21:51

Sorry for clogging the forums with a wtp and I agree with all of you I was just making sure I was right (at least about this hand).
All IMO. Junior wanting to soak up all the knowledge he can.
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#13 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-February-24, 08:03

peachy, on Feb 24 2009, 04:20 AM, said:

Good bridge authors recommend rebid of the 6-card major UNLESS the 4-card suit is hearts ("never" bypass hearts) and with better than minimum, rebid the 4-card suit. Judgment exceptions exist in this or any other bidding priciple, for example 10xxxxx-AKJ10 or AKQ109x-7xxx.

There are several good authors. Not all agree with you, some do.
Kind Regards

Roland


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#14 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2009-February-24, 08:06

jdaming, on Feb 23 2009, 09:51 PM, said:

Sorry for clogging the forums with a wtp and I agree with all of you I was just making sure I was right (at least about this hand).

There's zero need to be sorry. You didn't post this in Adv/Exp and these forums are for discussing and learning.

For me, I rebid 2 with this decent 4 card suit and looking for a major fit.
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#15 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-February-24, 12:25

Codo, on Feb 24 2009, 09:03 AM, said:

peachy, on Feb 24 2009, 04:20 AM, said:

Good bridge authors recommend rebid of the 6-card major UNLESS the 4-card suit is hearts ("never" bypass hearts) and with better than minimum, rebid the 4-card suit.  Judgment exceptions exist in this or any other bidding priciple, for example 10xxxxx-AKJ10 or AKQ109x-7xxx.

There are several good authors. Not all agree with you, some do.

It is the other way around B)
The authors do not agree with what I have to say; I agree with what the authors write.

If you can find a reference by a good bridge author who does not share the view I explained, share please.
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#16 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2009-February-24, 14:35

2 is my rebid.

Although this is a 5 1/2 loser hand, I want to play it in spades unless partner is strong enough to take another call. My experience is that partner will pass with 1 and 3. Diamond leads will probably kill a 4-3 heart contract.
Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded)(PM me for notes)

Played a Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with canapé, 11-14 NT with Keri Invites and Intermediate 2 bids (10-14), & 15+ 1 opener with transfer negatives @ 1-level & transfer positives @ the 2- and 3-levels. Canape after opening 1 or 1 (into a minor suit only). Played Naturelle in 2018. 2019 playing Canapé Club: 1 promises 4+ and 10+ hcp and is forcing 1 round (after George Coffin's NBC: Natural Big Club).

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#17 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2009-February-24, 15:53

PrecisionL, on Feb 24 2009, 03:35 PM, said:

2 is my rebid.

Although this is a 5 1/2 loser hand, I want to play it in spades unless partner is strong enough to take another call.  My experience is that partner will pass with 1 and 3.  Diamond leads will probably kill a 4-3 heart contract.

It's true that rebidding 2 will gain when partner has precisely 1-3 and a fairly bad hand.

But rebidding 2 will gain any time partner has 4-5, and some of these gains will in fact be game swings (i.e. partner has 1543 shape and 9-10 points, might pass a 2 rebid but would get us to game if we rebid 2).

Combining the frequency and magnitude of gain will, I expect, indicate that 2 is a better rebid here.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#18 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-February-24, 17:38

awm, on Feb 24 2009, 04:53 PM, said:

But rebidding 2 will gain any time partner has 4-5

I think it's quite likely that spades will play better when partner is 2-4 in the majors.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#19 User is offline   dicklont 

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Posted 2009-February-25, 16:46

peachy, on Feb 24 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

Codo, on Feb 24 2009, 09:03 AM, said:

peachy, on Feb 24 2009, 04:20 AM, said:

Good bridge authors recommend rebid of the 6-card major UNLESS the 4-card suit is hearts ("never" bypass hearts) and with better than minimum, rebid the 4-card suit.  [snip]

There are several good authors. Not all agree with you, some do.

[snip]
If you can find a reference by a good bridge author who does not share the view I explained, share please.

Mike Lawrence, in his workbook on the 2 over 1 system recommends to rebid the sixcard and not the fourcard .
He makes an exception when the heart suit has more HCP than the spade suit.

But Mike Lawrence is not a "good bridge author"; he is excellent. ;)
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#20 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-February-25, 17:11

dicklont, on Feb 26 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

peachy, on Feb 24 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

Codo, on Feb 24 2009, 09:03 AM, said:

peachy, on Feb 24 2009, 04:20 AM, said:

Good bridge authors recommend rebid of the 6-card major UNLESS the 4-card suit is hearts ("never" bypass hearts) and with better than minimum, rebid the 4-card suit.  [snip]

There are several good authors. Not all agree with you, some do.

[snip]
If you can find a reference by a good bridge author who does not share the view I explained, share please.

Mike Lawrence, in his workbook on the 2 over 1 system recommends to rebid the sixcard and not the fourcard .
He makes an exception when the heart suit has more HCP than the spade suit.

But Mike Lawrence is nog a "good bridge author"; he is excellent. ;)

Mike Lawrence had a rule of thumb in some earlier writing that with 6=4 rebid the suit with the most high card points.

It is certainly very easy to construct hands where one or other rebid is bad.

To those who like to rebid the four card suit because it tells partner more information there is another side to this well two other sides actually you also tell the opponents more information.

If I have a six-card suit and I belong in that suit I would rather play the contract having not mentioned my second suit. Of course in the bidding you do not yet know where you belong so you have to make some sort of compromise between helping partner choose the best strain and depriving the opponents of information.

For me currently having tried various approaches in this sort of situation I now tend towards rebidding my six-card suit. I do this less often when my four-card suit is hearts. I also do it less with better hands where the reward of a possible slam/game is greater.
Wayne Burrows

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dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
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Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

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