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Robot race strategies

#81 User is offline   cherdanno 

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Posted 2010-April-18, 19:22

gwnn, on Apr 18 2010, 04:54 PM, said:

are you talking about 1M.. 2N rebids? not clear what you mean. If so, of course I open them too

Also invites after 1M-2M. Or hands that bid 1S 1N 2x 2S 3x.
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#82 User is offline   allfail 

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Posted 2010-April-20, 13:14

I think I open my suit openings are similar to yours. I think invitational openings are not necessary under all vulnerabilities (at least for me) since I don't like to play edgy contract and spend a lot of time or end in a partial. For those better hands partner would also open if you didn't.

However, I don't know about 1NT. My rule has always been open all 16+ if vulnerable. So if a hand does not fit in your previous description yet has more than 16 pts I would open 1NT. This includes 5M332, 5M4m22.. etc. Nonvul I would do the same first/2nd seat, but more depending on my mood.

I think it is a good thing to discuss whether one should open 1NT in best hands. The downside is of course, being leaving out in a partial or being heavily penalized. The plus side is to reach game, with the bonus that GiB sometimes misdefends if you bid 1NT with 5 of a major. In my personal experience, I think ~1/2 or maybe more of the hands would reach game if you open 1NT 1st/2nd seat. The other half you would land in a partial, and the score is often small and can be played reasonably quick. It is very unlikely to go down a lot or being doubled unless opponents have game. In this case either way you are going to be negative.

To sum up, I think having a 1nt hand 1st/2nd seat can score 200-300 in average if you open and is slightly too good to miss. Also, maybe the most decisive factor is that if you don't open and opps do, you are in a horrible situation since you cannot compete for the contract and they tend to play in a partial horribly slow.
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#83 User is offline   Rain 

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Posted 2010-July-04, 07:02

An eureka moment was when I realised robot evaluate points DIFFERENTLY, but in a set way.

http://online.bridge...ystem_notes.php

HCP vs Total Points

Gib uses both old fashioned HCP (A=4,K=3,Q=2,J=1)) and “Total points” (HCP+3 for void, 2 for singleton, 1 for doubleton). It sometimes uses “8421” points when cuebidding (A=8,K=4,Q=2,J=1). It will usually force to game if it thinks it has 25 Total Points between the two hands.


This is huge, I think. Makes the alerts much more understandable! And generally implies I need to underbid a little to compensate for steroid bot.

-----------------------------
New thing in the duplicates: Passing out 12-15 hands like in robot rewards doesn't score as well, but preempting with these seem to work well.
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#84 User is offline   Scoti 

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Posted 2010-July-06, 00:17

Dwingo, on Jan 15 2009, 05:02 AM, said:

3) If GIB can play the hand, it always plays the hand faster and better than you do. So if you can manoeuvre  this, nothing like it.

Wow really?? Can my Robo's get some lessons from yours!? Seriously, they are not only slower (which I am gathering may be my connection speed) but Robo-P will always manage to overbid one trick. If it happens to find a correct bid, finds a way to lose a trick.
My last hand the bidding went something like: 1!s P 2!h P, 3!c P 3!h P, 4!d P 4!h P, P(I give up) P
I had a big hand for anything but my heart void. P reveals his hand, 5 hearts with 10 high & the rest under 8. Lol & cry . . .
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#85 User is offline   AceOfHeart 

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Posted 2010-July-23, 11:30

Scoti, on Jul 6 2010, 01:17 AM, said:

Dwingo, on Jan 15 2009, 05:02 AM, said:

3) If GIB can play the hand, it always plays the hand faster and better than you do. So if you can manoeuvre  this, nothing like it.

Wow really?? Can my Robo's get some lessons from yours!? Seriously, they are not only slower (which I am gathering may be my connection speed) but Robo-P will always manage to overbid one trick. If it happens to find a correct bid, finds a way to lose a trick.
My last hand the bidding went something like: 1!s P 2!h P, 3!c P 3!h P, 4!d P 4!h P, P(I give up) P
I had a big hand for anything but my heart void. P reveals his hand, 5 hearts with 10 high & the rest under 8. Lol & cry . . .

Robot play faster in almost all circumstances. The fastest i see a robot declare a hand is <5 seconds. They tend to play slower if the contract is low since there is almost many possibility. But once you reach a contract with only 1 line of play or with all cashing tricks, Gib does that with blazing speed.
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#86 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2010-July-23, 15:15

AceOfHeart, on Jul 23 2010, 01:30 PM, said:

Robot play faster in almost all circumstances. The fastest i see a robot declare a hand is <5 seconds. They tend to play slower if the contract is low since there is almost many possibility. But once you reach a contract with only 1 line of play or with all cashing tricks, Gib does that with blazing speed.

I've hardly ever seen it play that fast in a tourney, but in the MBC hands frequently go so quickly you can't see what's happening.

#87 User is offline   cloa513 

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Posted 2010-July-23, 20:21

Scoti, on Jul 6 2010, 01:17 AM, said:

Dwingo, on Jan 15 2009, 05:02 AM, said:

3) If GIB can play the hand, it always plays the hand faster and better than you do. So if you can manoeuvre  this, nothing like it.

Wow really?? Can my Robo's get some lessons from yours!? Seriously, they are not only slower (which I am gathering may be my connection speed) but Robo-P will always manage to overbid one trick. If it happens to find a correct bid, finds a way to lose a trick.
My last hand the bidding went something like: 1!s P 2!h P, 3!c P 3!h P, 4!d P 4!h P, P(I give up) P
I had a big hand for anything but my heart void. P reveals his hand, 5 hearts with 10 high & the rest under 8. Lol & cry . . .

So why didn't you try 3NT after 3H.
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#88 User is offline   AceOfHeart 

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Posted 2010-July-24, 09:39

barmar, on Jul 23 2010, 04:15 PM, said:

AceOfHeart, on Jul 23 2010, 01:30 PM, said:

Robot play faster in almost all circumstances. The fastest i see a robot declare a hand is <5 seconds.  They tend to play slower if the contract is low since there is almost many possibility. But once you reach a contract with only 1 line of play or with all cashing tricks, Gib does that with blazing speed.

I've hardly ever seen it play that fast in a tourney, but in the MBC hands frequently go so quickly you can't see what's happening.

use web client, the web client play much faster than the windows client.
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#89 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2010-July-26, 21:09

I only use the web client.

I think tourneys are the same in both clients, since they always run the robot on a server. In the Windows client, MBC bots run on your PC, and you can set the speed.

#90 User is offline   jamegumb 

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Posted 2010-August-23, 13:39

1) GIB sucks at Moysian fits. (Always remember SJ Simon's line, "The best result possible. Not the best possible result.")

2) GIB covers honors much more than it should. Same with playing high from 3rd position.
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#91 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2010-August-24, 23:39

It probably pops aces in 2nd chair more than it should, too.

#92 User is offline   jamegumb 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 09:22

Oh, and can it keep from bidding a Kxxxxx suit three times? When I set a 3NT contract, it's because I know how lousy your rebids can be. Don't take me out into your major.
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#93 User is offline   jamegumb 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 10:57

And I'm reading here about people playing 30+ hands. Isn't there a 25-hand limit to Robot Reward tournaments?
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#94 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 22:38

I don't think there's a limit to robot rewards tourneys. The signup screen says 25 boards, but that's because the software needs a number to be put there.

#95 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2010-August-26, 10:50

jamegumb, on Aug 25 2010, 11:57 AM, said:

And I'm reading here about people playing 30+ hands.  Isn't there a 25-hand limit to Robot Reward tournaments?

I've gone over 25 hands plenty of times. Probably average over 25 hands. (Actually, 24 1/2.)
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#96 User is offline   jamegumb 

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Posted 2010-September-17, 17:16

Finally scored above 10,000 (actually topped 11 as well). Still not quite sure what to open with 18-19 points and no five card major or four card minor. Seeing 1D passed out on those hands is depressing.

BTW, I think it's flawed to announce the tournament as 25 hands when the hands are actually unlimited. This was influencing my strategy before I found out better.
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#97 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2010-September-18, 08:53

With 4=4=3=2, the system bid is 1. Last night I managed to make it (with an overtrick, I think) holding QTx opposite xxx. But we'd undoubtedly have done better playing in GIB's QJxxx, since I held AKxx there.

I don't recommend upgrading it to 2NT. GIB has put me in many difficult 3NT's when I had a real 2NT opener. Then again, in total points the game bonus makes it worthwhile to bid the sketchiest games.

#98 User is offline   fly_tier 

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Posted 2010-November-04, 04:26

View Postcherdano, on 2008-December-27, 05:25, said:

What special strategies do you use in robot race tournaments (if you play them)? How fast do you play, i.e. how many hands do you typically get to finish in the 25 minutes?
Anything special to handle the GIBs? Do you watch the leaderboard a lot?


Personally I think the whole thing is a fiddle. The robots seem to bid and play a different game between match point and money prizes. Can someone explain to me why it is that as my first hand is dealt the name and points of someone is going up on the leader board, why as the very last 4 cards of a hand are played you wait for ages whilst the robots play (time wasting?) and why in a recent comp did my robot ruff my ace, east and west followed suit and then when I get in again and play the same suit east and west following my robot has no trumps left so the ops make their game instead of going one down.
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#99 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2010-November-04, 19:42

In Robot Race/Reward tournaments, many hands that would be opened in "normal" bridge get passed out. I've taken to not opening any hands where I'm not vulnerable, and I doubt I'm alone. Since board 1 is always none vul, many of them get passed out quickly, which is why you see results going up on the leader board so soon.

As for why it ruffed your ace, that's hard to say without seeing the hand. It must have done a simulation that found that it needed to get on lead right away. There sometimes are hands where it's necessary to trump partner's winner for communication, or to avoid an end-play. Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do with the information it had.

#100 User is offline   fly_tier 

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Posted 2010-November-11, 03:30

View Postbarmar, on 2010-November-04, 19:42, said:

In Robot Race/Reward tournaments, many hands that would be opened in "normal" bridge get passed out. I've taken to not opening any hands where I'm not vulnerable, and I doubt I'm alone. Since board 1 is always none vul, many of them get passed out quickly, which is why you see results going up on the leader board so soon.

As for why it ruffed your ace, that's hard to say without seeing the hand. It must have done a simulation that found that it needed to get on lead right away. There sometimes are hands where it's necessary to trump partner's winner for communication, or to avoid an end-play. Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do with the information it had.


It has been explained to me by B.B.O. that in robot race/reward comps we are dealt different board anyway, hence you can see point's for a slam going up as you are trying to make a part score and this explains why, when you feel you have played well and put a 1000pts up, someone else puts 6000pts up. The other day I played in a match point comp where my robot refused twice to ruff there winning trick, they then drew trumps, it had 3 trumps small ones so no trump promotion and they made there contract, the robots all played at a fast pace. I then played in a reward comp where the pace of play slows to a crawl, so much so that in the last hand I am about to make a slam, the last cards are played to my ace and the last robot took nearly 1 minute to play (I timed it) and the overall time runs out before he can do so, thereby making that hand void and I lose the points and money. I think its a racket.
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