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Robot race strategies

#21 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2009-January-15, 21:07

jdonn, on Jan 15 2009, 09:25 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Jan 15 2009, 07:39 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jan 13 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

- Best hint of all: Don't forget to turn on autoplay singletons! Corrolary: When you go back to bridge with people, don't forget to turn it off!

Thanks! I didn't think of this and it increased my number of hands by 4-8 per 25 minutes.

Wow I'm shocked if it's that much lol. Just how slowly were you playing your singletons before?!?

GIB was playing them pretty slowly. I admit I took your "let GIB get count" suggestion too to get this improvement. My PC may also be performing better now, not sure.
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#22 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-January-15, 23:15

I just finished one trick from finishing hand 30. And managed to come in 4th out of 11 lol.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#23 User is offline   AceOfHeart 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 07:14

It will depends on random or best hand. For best hand I will play as fast as possible. For random hands it is totally different.

For random hands , sometimes even a small slam is enough to win the race if opps are unlucky enough.

Generally , I will play till somehow i reach about 1000 points or more and stop playing immediately if opps have a vul game/slam/grandslam. This ensure that you will most of the time finish in the money.

A annoyance I find is that GIB will some times think for very long 30 secs or so on a simple decision of playing for 3 small which make me want to slam the keyboard
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#24 User is offline   VegasVern 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 15:38

I think I read somwhere that allowing claims is out of the question because of the complexities of the situations.

I've been playing a lot of these things (mostly .25 centers), and although I've won a few here and there, mostly I get killed.

I've been away from bridge for a while, and I've been using these robot contests to get me back up to speed. My declarer play and bidding need a lot of work, but I've improved greatly since I first began.

That being said, and ignoring (excellent) strategy implications throughout this thread, the bots can be exasperatingly, aggravating. In my experience they just won't let you balance or compete without thinking you've suddenly woken up with a great hand. And some of the bidding sequences leave me shaking my head--although I'm sure the fault lies with me more often that not. [And why is it they never seem to return your suit bid or led???]

And yes, they take an exhorbitant amount of time to follow suit with the deuce of clubs, which is something I think could be fixed.

I have just recently started passing out games with low point counts. I haven't tried many of the suggestions above as of yet, and the most games I have ever completed including an average of about 1 passout is 13. Like I said, I've been using these tournaments to try and improve my game. Now I'm going to try and improve my score as well.

[As an aside, it might be interesting if everyone had to play every hand; no passouts allowed; then the part scores would come into play, and things like overtricks and finding the best contract would become important; but this might be impractical to implement. Just a thought.]

Thanks to all for the tips.
Vern
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#25 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 16:49

jdonn, on Jan 16 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

I just finished one trick from finishing hand 30. And managed to come in 4th out of 11 lol.

All I can say is "Wow!"

Sometimes even pass-outs take a while for me, since it seems like GIB in 4th seat often takes 5-10 seconds deciding whether to open (how hard is it to count Pearson points?).

Something I was wondering: do the $5 games have fewer players per server, so GIB plays faster?

Also, do you manage to avoid lots of thin contracts? Since total points scoring really rewards games and slams, I find that I stretch to bid them, and playing a tough contract is naturally slower.

#26 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 17:06

barmar, on Jan 16 2009, 05:49 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jan 16 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

I just finished one trick from finishing hand 30. And managed to come in 4th out of 11 lol.

All I can say is "Wow!"

Sometimes even pass-outs take a while for me, since it seems like GIB in 4th seat often takes 5-10 seconds deciding whether to open (how hard is it to count Pearson points?).

Something I was wondering: do the $5 games have fewer players per server, so GIB plays faster?

Also, do you manage to avoid lots of thin contracts? Since total points scoring really rewards games and slams, I find that I stretch to bid them, and playing a tough contract is naturally slower.

Actually the opposite. The reason I got so many hands in yet did so badly is I went down in game like 10 times. I still find the higher the contract, the faster the play by GIB. And I'm playing instantly in every contract, except a slam or perhaps vul game where I just need a little thought. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'm playing worse due to the speed, but considering it's instant I'd say I'm playing allright!
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#27 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 17:37

Undoubtedly I'm still wasting much too much time during the auctions hovering over bids trying to remember what GIB thinks they mean.

Here's one that has me totally confused: 2NT-3-3M-cheapest-other-Major. The explanation says that it shows support for the major I bid. I assume it's some kind of slam try, but I haven't figured out what it asks or shows. Yesterday I continued by cue-bidding my minor and it jumped to slam holding 2 or 3 small in the suit, opposite my QJx (or maybe it was vice versa). Amazingly GIB misdefended and didn't take their AK, and I was able to get rid of the loser, so I made this hopeless slam.

GIB also really likes to invite slams by jumping to 5 of the agreed major, but I practically never get these decisions right.

#28 User is offline   AceOfHeart 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 18:45

barmar, on Jan 16 2009, 06:37 PM, said:

GIB also really likes to invite slams by jumping to 5 of the agreed major, but I practically never get these decisions right.

I just bid 6 regardless, I never figured 5 of a major out
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#29 User is offline   uday 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 19:27

Quote

do the $5 games have fewer players per server, so GIB plays faster?


The games all tap into the same pool of robots, all the same speed. I could probably find a way to speed up gib somewhat, at least for the $5 games, with a little bit of effort.

U

#30 User is offline   VegasVern 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 19:50

uday, on Jan 16 2009, 06:27 PM, said:

Quote

do the $5 games have fewer players per server, so GIB plays faster?


The games all tap into the same pool of robots, all the same speed. I could probably find a way to speed up gib somewhat, at least for the $5 games, with a little bit of effort.

U

If you rent the robots ($1 for a week) you have the ability to speed them up to their fastest level. This REALLY makes a big difference. They no longer pause for 10-15 seconds while they contemplate following suit. (It's also good practice for the tourneys.) Too bad you can't use that option in the tournaments.

Even at that super fast level, they play remarkably well.

Also, I'd like to see some Intermediate level robot tourneys. The advanced and expert players usually kick arsenal in most of the ones that I play.
Vern
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#31 User is offline   brianshark 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 20:19

I hadn't played a robot race in ages, and only ever played 1 or 2 before, so I tried out one of the cheap ones where you get the best hand at the table and everyone plays the same hands (these weren't going last time I played a robot race). I only got 16 boards finished, but I think I was a board or two ahead of the rest of the field based on when their big scors came in for the slam hands. I only went off in 1 contract I should have made because of playing too quickly.I still won, but I guess there are no prizes given out to the 0.25$ ones. Grr! :)

These things could get quite addictive. :)
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#32 User is offline   H_KARLUK 

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Posted 2009-January-16, 23:23

Scoring: Total Points


 P  1  1  P
P   2  2  D
?

2 seems obvious by any human player. Anyways Robot passed. I paid -500 and down to 4th from 1st rank. Just played and finished in 3rd rank.

Any explanation please ? I think it's beyond all strategies.

Hamdi

ps. It does not mean I'm upset or a grumpy one. In fact I liked very much a great defense and another wise play of my partner. However I really wonder if there's a rationale reply to my question. Thanks :)
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#33 User is offline   JLOL 

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Posted 2009-January-17, 00:16

Probably the same rationale as your decision to bid 2D rather than X 2C, bots like humans sometimes make inexplicably terrible decisions.
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#34 User is offline   H_KARLUK 

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Posted 2009-January-17, 00:17

Good or bad i simply showed my 4 cards side suit. 2 spades rescue of partner a must or not?

Would robo partner pass and convert to penalty or correct to 2 spades if i doubled 2 clubs? What is th logical reason ?

Instead of reading emotional comments i expect technical views.
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#35 User is offline   AceOfHeart 

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Posted 2009-January-17, 03:28

barmar, on Jan 16 2009, 05:49 PM, said:

Sometimes even pass-outs take a while for me, since it seems like GIB in 4th seat often takes 5-10 seconds deciding whether to open (how hard is it to count Pearson points?).

Someone need to change the logic of the robot to not open with any balanced or semi balanced hand in 4th seat with less than 12 HCP.

Some how my bot open on a 4-3-3-3 on 8 points
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#36 User is offline   VegasVern 

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Posted 2009-January-17, 17:17

[quote name='H_KARLUK' date='Jan 16 2009, 10:23 PM']
Scoring: Total Points

Could you please tell me how you put this hand diagram in the post?

Thanks
Vern
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#37 User is offline   H_KARLUK 

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Posted 2009-January-17, 17:19

Hello,

I saved deal. Then I used full hand option and copied what i saw.

Good luck.
We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak. Quoted by Albert Einstein.
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#38 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-January-17, 17:20

AceOfHeart, on Jan 17 2009, 04:28 AM, said:

Someone need to change the logic of the robot to not open with any balanced or semi balanced hand in 4th seat with less than 12 HCP.

Some how my bot open on a 4-3-3-3 on 8 points

Sorry but if you are refering to "the logic of the robot" then that already shows you don't understand how it chooses its bids. It runs simulations and examines the double dummy results, it doesn't use logic.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#39 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2009-January-19, 05:12

jdonn, on Jan 17 2009, 06:20 PM, said:

AceOfHeart, on Jan 17 2009, 04:28 AM, said:

Someone need to change the logic of the robot to not open with any balanced or semi balanced hand in 4th seat with less than 12 HCP.

Some how my bot open on a 4-3-3-3 on 8 points

Sorry but if you are refering to "the logic of the robot" then that already shows you don't understand how it chooses its bids. It runs simulations and examines the double dummy results, it doesn't use logic.

I thought its bidding was mostly based on a system database, while card play is based on simulations. It used to give more weight to the simulations during bidding, which produced lots of weird auctions (like transfering to 4-card suits or bidding Stayman and then bidding NT despite finding a 4-4 fit), but Fred fixed this stuff a few months ago.

But it still does some weird things. Twice I've seen it open 1D with a 4=4=2=3 hand. And tonight there was an auction where that went something like this (me dealer):

1 1 P 2
P 4 P 4 All Pass

4 was explained as a splinter, but it had a 5-card suit.

#40 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-January-19, 09:10

I still don't think if follows bidding 'rules' in most situations. There is no rule set for it to, for example, have a minimum strength when opening a balanced hand in fourth seat. More evidence is I saw it recently respond 2 to a takeout double of a major with 3343.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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