When to avoid stayman
#1
Posted 2008-October-27, 13:29
Pard opens a 15-17 NT. When will you avoid the use of Stayman?
#2
Posted 2008-October-27, 13:34
- hrothgar
#3
Posted 2008-October-27, 13:34
#4
Posted 2008-October-27, 13:35
#5
Posted 2008-October-27, 13:39
#6
Posted 2008-October-27, 13:52
#7
Posted 2008-October-27, 14:05
#8
Posted 2008-October-27, 14:06
Normally, if the combined hands have about 29-31 HCP they will make the same number of tricks in notrump as in a suit contract if both hands are balanced.
At IMPs, I tend to Stayman all the time. There is always the chance that your doubleton will be opposite partner's doubleton or one of you will have a weak 3 card holding opposite shortness.
My response does not fall into any one of the poll categories neatly, so I did not vote.
#9
Posted 2008-October-27, 14:07
MickyB, on Oct 27 2008, 10:52 PM, said:
What he said:
The 4-4 major suit fit is much more likely to generate an extra trick if we have 24-26 HCP than 27-28.
#10
Posted 2008-October-27, 14:25
With two balanced hands, the 4-4 major fit will usually produce one additional trick.
At IMPs, when the major fit produces one more trick I'm happy to be in 3NT even though it plays a trick worse. So it's just between the "major equal or worse" and the "major produces two more tricks." This is fairly close; when I am 4333 or have a strong doubleton it is unlikely that the major produces two more tricks so I will just bid 3NT.
At MPs, the most frequent "4-4 fit one-trick better" situation means you have to bid 4M on these hands. So I would virtually always bid stayman.
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#11
Posted 2008-October-27, 23:17
Old fashioned lesson - read and learn.
#12
Posted 2008-October-28, 02:38
ArtK78, on Oct 27 2008, 03:06 PM, said:
Normally, if the combined hands have about 29-31 HCP they will make the same number of tricks in notrump as in a suit contract if both hands are balanced.
At IMPs, I tend to Stayman all the time. There is always the chance that your doubleton will be opposite partner's doubleton or one of you will have a weak 3 card holding opposite shortness.
My response does not fall into any one of the poll categories neatly, so I did not vote.
agree.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#13
Posted 2008-October-28, 05:08
I bid 3NT without investigating a 4-4 major fit when the hand fits 'enough' of the following hand types:
4-3-3-3
4-4-3-2 with a strong doubleton
a preponderance of Queens and Jacks over Aces and Kings
good spots - tens and nines
extra values
I tend not to bid 3NT without investigating a potential major fit with:
weak doubletons
two or more weak three-card suits
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#14
Posted 2008-October-28, 08:46
I've also believed that soft cards and intermediates are a NT indicator, but perhaps that is just a tie-breaker.
4432 with a strong doubleton may or may not produce the extra trick. It is dependent on pard's holding opposite.
#15
Posted 2008-October-28, 20:42
#16
Posted 2008-October-28, 20:59
pclayton, on Oct 27 2008, 07:29 PM, said:
Pard opens a 15-17 NT. When will you avoid the use of Stayman?
The system design should allow the responder to find 4-4 fit and still be able to stay in 3NT if opener has the right cards. Also, so many open 1NT with 5M, so you really don't want to miss 5-4 fit 4M, in that case, skipping stayman should be rather bad. So generally speaking, one should always try for stayman and the system design should allow him to choose 3NT or 4M when the major fit is discovered. Otherwise, many 5-4 fit and 4-4 fit suitable for 4M would be missed.
#17
Posted 2008-October-28, 21:33
junyi_zhu, on Oct 28 2008, 08:59 PM, said:
pclayton, on Oct 27 2008, 07:29 PM, said:
Pard opens a 15-17 NT. When will you avoid the use of Stayman?
The system design should allow the responder to find 4-4 fit and still be able to stay in 3NT if opener has the right cards. Also, so many open 1NT with 5M, so you really don't want to miss 5-4 fit 4M, in that case, skipping stayman should be rather bad. So generally speaking, one should always try for stayman and the system design should allow him to choose 3NT or 4M when the major fit is discovered. Otherwise, many 5-4 fit and 4-4 fit suitable for 4M would be missed.
So that we can maximize the information available to defenders?
#18
Posted 2008-October-29, 00:32
My partnerships often open 1N with a 5 card major, but I don't think that will make a difference; I'm never ruffing in the short hand if I'm playing in a trump contract, so missing a 5-4 fit isn't the end of the world, while hiding info from the defense on the 19 hands out of 20 where we don't have a 9 card trump fit always helps.
#19
Posted 2008-October-29, 04:15
cherdano, on Oct 29 2008, 04:33 AM, said:
junyi_zhu, on Oct 28 2008, 08:59 PM, said:
pclayton, on Oct 27 2008, 07:29 PM, said:
Pard opens a 15-17 NT. When will you avoid the use of Stayman?
The system design should allow the responder to find 4-4 fit and still be able to stay in 3NT if opener has the right cards. Also, so many open 1NT with 5M, so you really don't want to miss 5-4 fit 4M, in that case, skipping stayman should be rather bad. So generally speaking, one should always try for stayman and the system design should allow him to choose 3NT or 4M when the major fit is discovered. Otherwise, many 5-4 fit and 4-4 fit suitable for 4M would be missed.
So that we can maximize the information available to defenders?
While concealing opener's distribution is worth something, I've noticed that whenever I get to 3NT with no stop in one of the suits in the auction 1NT - 3NT, the opponents have a horrible tendency either to lead the suit, or to switch to it.
If you don't have 9 cashing tricks, it's often wrong to play in 3NT even if you give the opponents a blind lead. Maybe this is taking a good idea too far, but in a way it might be in the long term be superior to raise 1NT to 3NT looking at a 2=6=3=2 distribution than a 3=4=3=3 hand.
I agree that system design should allow responder to discover if there is a 4-4 fit, offer the choice between the fit and 3NT, and keep declarer's hand type and range concealed. Funnily enough, in one partnership that makes looking for a fit with spades more tempting than looking with hearts, because more of opener's distribution is kept confidential.
#20
Posted 2008-October-29, 05:27
♠Jxxx ♥Jxxx ♦xxxx ♣x
If yes, what you are going to call after
1nt ( partner ) - pas - 2♣(you), 3♣(LHO) - X ( partner) - pas - ?