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Serious No trump and last train (meckwell patents)

#1 User is offline   bobhamman 

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Posted 2003-March-12, 10:09

Hi folks throwing the above topic open to you knowledgable types!!

Can anyone give me an explanation of the above conventions

with thanks

bobhamman


I also need to know about two way stayman and checkback answers on a postcard to me thanks again
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#2 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2003-March-12, 10:27

Hi Bob,

Welcome to the BBO forum. In addition to playing bridge on line at pogo,  you should try the bridgebase on line out. It is amazing.

For serious NT, I assume of course you mean Serious 3NT. The basic principle is in a game forcing auction where you and your partner have a) found at least an eight card major fit, and :) neither of you have used principle of fast arrival to greatly limit  your hand, both partners are expected to participate in slam exploration. The typical situation would be something like...

1H-2D (game force)
3C-3H (fit and still game force).

Opener is now expected to cue-bid 3S with any control in spades (first or second round). Lacking that, opener can either bid 3NT or cue-bid a club control if he has one (for the moment let's forget about diamonds). If opener doesn't bid 3S - (bidding 3NT or 4C) first off, he lacks any control in spades. So responder with two losing spades must immediately signoff in 4H. Second, if opener bids 4C instead of 3NT, he is showing "no serious slam interest" in addition to holding a control in the spade suit. If he bids 4C, he denies serious interest, but is co-operating with his partner. Responder will continue for slam over 4C only if has serious interest.

LTTC is a "cue-bid" of the suit immediately below the agreed upon trump suit as a last stab for slam. It can have several meanings depending upon the auction to date. For instance, if opener bids 4C as above, and responder bids 4D... this among other things shows slam intrest, and promises a SPADE control (else, responder simply bids 4H with two top losers). But it is neutral on a diamond control. The use of LTTC can then be combined with yet another convention call LACKWOOD. After a player uses LTTC and the other partner trys to signoff in the major, if the LTTC bidder raises to 5 of the agreed trump suit it is a kind of BLACKWOOD that LACKS control in the LTTC suit. The partner of the LACKWOOD bidder must pass without a control in the LTTC suit. With only second round control of LTTC he bids small slam (since must be off first round control), and with first round control there are step responses.

For more detailed information, I can recommend  a great place to read about LTTC, serious 3NT and LACKWOOD... it is Fred's advanced notes on BBO 2/1 game force.  If  you haven't yet, download the BBO software from http://www.bridgebase.com, when you log on, click on the large button entitled "training rooms". When you get to the training rooms, click on the large button entitled "Bridge Base Standard"... and from that screen click on the small button entitled "bridge base advanced". Several pages in you will find a very nice description of serious 3NT and LTTC. I recommend that over H's you reverse the meaning of 3NT and 3S (playing essentially serious 3S with 3NT being cue-bid in Spades without serious slam intent... but that is not part of the regular system).
--Ben--

#3 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2003-March-12, 16:44

I can see it now..."the last train to Clarksville...oh no no no...oh no no nooooo..."
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
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Posted 2003-March-12, 17:02

Quote

I can see it now..."the last train to Clarksville...oh no no no...oh no no nooooo..."


I was wondering if any forum members have tried to extend  LTTC to minor suit auctions, and if so, how well do they think it works in that situation.
--Ben--

#5 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2003-March-12, 18:27

I agree with most of what was written in the 2nd post. You would be better off adopting picture jumps rather than "fast arrival". The latter, while still played by some, was always a dubious principle.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#6 User is offline   YesHoney 

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Posted 2003-March-13, 02:21

Inquiry...  I think there was a mistype in the description of serious 3NT you provided.   If opener skips 3S and skips 3NT to bid 4C he is denying BOTH the S cue and serious slam interest.   Pls let me know if it is me getting it all wrong.
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Posted 2003-March-13, 04:00

You are right, YH.

At one place I mistated opener bypassing 3NT to cue bid 4C when I left out the word "NO".  I did get it right two sentences later. I have corrected the post, so people reading it now may not understand what you were talking about. Thank you very much for pointing out the typo.

Ben
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#8 User is offline   easy 

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Posted 2003-March-15, 12:43

There is a very good description of 2 way stayman after a rebid of 1nt in the OCT/NOV 97 Mike Lawrence Newsletter. I'm sure mike will send u a copy if you send him a couple of bucks.
This game never ceases to intrigue me!!
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#9 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2003-March-15, 15:55

Another concept that I'm surprised no one has mentioned about Meckwell...Eric is noted as the creator of support doubles to avoid playing 3-3 fits from time to time.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
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#10 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2003-March-15, 20:51

I have a "Serious 3NT" question

If Hearts is the agreed suit, isn't it better to use 3S as the "serious" bid, and 3NT as a "non-serious" Spade cue?

There are at least two slight advantages I can see

1) Playing serious 3NT we might get (after Hearts is agreed)

3S 4D (4D is forced cue in case opener is serious)
4H (opener isn't serious)

thus pinpointing a club lead

But serious 3S gives us

3NT 4H leaving the defense a bit more in the dark

2) Playing serious 3NT, if responder's only control is in Spades, there is no way to show it below 4H, but playing serious 3S we can get

3S 3NT as showing a spade cue by responder, and
3S 4C as showing Clubs but denying spades.

Eric
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