Come on, take it out, really?
#2
Posted 2007-September-29, 15:49
I pass, and blame Larry Cohen if I'm wrong
#3
Posted 2007-September-29, 15:54
- hrothgar
#6
Posted 2007-September-29, 17:18
Pass.
#7
Posted 2007-September-29, 17:40
You will probably beat 3Hx about 6 or 7 times in 10 based on aces and kings. But 3 or 4 times in 10 you will be -730 (or, gasp! -930). Not only that, but if your partner is short in hearts, you should have a fit and possibly a game (or, gasp! slam). After all, partner did make a takeout double.
Some of those 6 or 7 times in 10 you beat 3Hx a trick or 2 you will have a game or slam.
I bid 4♣. Even if this is wrong (and it will occasionally be wrong) it will at least avoid destroying partnership harmony and possibly losing the match on this one hand.
By the way, Larry Cohen might note that the opponents rate to have a 9 or 10 card heart fit, so their contract is Law abiding. Whether you have an 8 or 9 card trump fit is questionable, but partner did double.
There is a quote attributed to Bobby Goldman. While playing with a client, in a competitive auction, the client, with a good hand but not much in the opponent's trump suit, made a penalty double. After the opponents made their contract, the client answered Goldman's question about why he doubled with "But I had a good hand!" To which it is reported that Goldman replied "With points you bid - with trumps you double!"
Here, by passing, you are effectively doubling for penalties. You have aces and 3 small trump. It may work, but I don't like it.
#8 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-September-29, 17:59
ArtK78, on Sep 29 2007, 06:40 PM, said:
oh!
#9
Posted 2007-September-29, 18:33
Vulnerable and MPs, I leave it in. Vulnerable and IMPs, I should leave it in. My cojones just aren't big enough. Sorry.
#10
Posted 2007-September-29, 18:54
ArtK78, on Sep 29 2007, 06:40 PM, said:
These are the types of comments I don't understand. How will 3♥X making destroy partnership harmony but not 4♣X down three?
Also, if you are going to mention Larry Cohen then the law argument would be to pass. You figure them for 9 hearts and you for 8 clubs (either could be off by 1 in either direction) which is not the sort of thing that would make LC recommend bidding 4 over 3.
#11
Posted 2007-September-29, 19:04
#12
Posted 2007-September-29, 19:13
ArtK78, on Sep 29 2007, 08:04 PM, said:
I don't. That's simply the bad scenario. Just like 3♥X making would be the bad scenario. You said one of those disasters would destroy partnership harmony and I'm just wondering why the other one wouldn't.
#13
Posted 2007-September-29, 19:34
I hope partner didn't make a slowish double.
- hrothgar
#14
Posted 2007-September-29, 20:28
Maybe not for some.
Anything could be right on this hand. In my opinion, taking out partner's takeout double rates to be best in the long run if you don't have a strong holding in the opponents' trump suit.
I have some admiration for the 3♠ bidder. That call occurred to me, also, but I think that I should still bid my long suit, even if it is xxxx. In spades, partner is going to be tapped in the long trump hand, which can work out quite badly.
From discussions in other threads, some posters do not have a lot of respect for vulnerable preempts. Perhaps they are drawing from personal experience. In my experience, when a good player opens a vul 3♥ at IMPs in first seat he usually has a very good suit. Partner could easily have a 4045 hand (heart void, any 5 card suit) and make a takeout double. Partner might even have a 4063 or 4036 hand. You might still beat 3♥x, but you probably won't get rich. And 3♥x might make. Furthermore, you may be cold for a game or slam your way. I wouldn't want to return to my teammates' table with -730 when they are minus a game in one of the other suits. Equally disastrous would be +200 or +500 when you are cold for slam.
The passers may be right on this hand. But I don't think it is the right call in the long run.
#15
Posted 2007-September-29, 20:54
ArtK78, on Sep 29 2007, 09:28 PM, said:
This is such a bad argument, my fingers begin to tickle again and I have to delete the insults that appear on the screen.
If you want to argue that passing is wrong, please don't use this "if it is wrong your teammates will be angry" crap.
And of course partner could have a heart void. Of course partner could also be 4-2-4-3, what else would she do with KQxx xx K10xx AKQ. Here you can't make much yet you will likely score +500 if you pass.
Those who posted before you think that passing is best in the long run, but they may be wrong. It is you who insults them by suggesting that they didn't understand the colors or didn't realize it was IMPs. They did, they don't like being in this position, but they think pass is the best call. You think bidding is best, no problem, bridge is a difficult game and the right call isn't always clear.
- hrothgar
#16
Posted 2007-September-29, 21:37
And I did not insult anyone. I just find it hard to believe that so many would pass at IMPs under this set of conditions.
Could partner be 4243? Sure. But I am not going to base my bidding on that possibility. Even if that is true, it does not follow that we are beating 3♥x or that we won't make a partial. Still, if partner has that exact hand, then passing will probably work out best.
But there are so many other possible hands that are consistent with the auction on which passing will work out very badly.
The bottom line is that partner made a takeout double and I am going to take it out.
#17
Posted 2007-September-29, 21:52
#18
Posted 2007-September-30, 01:44
Harald
#19
Posted 2007-September-30, 03:24
George Carlin
#20
Posted 2007-September-30, 07:52
mr1303, on Sep 29 2007, 09:49 PM, said:
I'll sue for reparations. Definitely
W - N - E - S
3♥-X-ps-??