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Responding to Woolsey

#1 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-September-05, 12:29

Does anyone have a good response structure for responding to Woolsey after a 1N opening?

Over 2 (majors): I'm playing 2 = choose (if 2C is x'd, 2 is natural), 2/ to play. 2N is an enigma. It should be some sort of game try, but how?

Ditto with 1N - 2 - pass - 2N. I can see some sort of multi response structure here.

How about after 1N - dbl - pass - ?
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#2 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2007-September-05, 12:45

Quote

Over 2♣ (majors): I'm playing 2♦ = choose (if 2C is x'd, 2♦ is natural), 2♥/♠ to play. 2N is an enigma. It should be some sort of game try, but how?


2NT asks for the longer major:

3 = 5
3 = 5
3 = 5 - 5 min.
3 = 5 - 5 max.

then bidding a major is inv.

Quote

Ditto with 1N - 2♦ - pass - 2N. I can see some sort of multi response structure here.


Pick your favorite Multi 2 response scheme

1N x p ?

* 2: Pass or correct
* 2: What is your major?
* 2M: I have 6 of these, don't care about your M
* 2N: What is your minor, constructive
* Pass: Game interest B)
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#3 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2007-September-05, 12:47

(nevermind, misread something in Gerben's post)

This post has been edited by Rob F: 2007-September-05, 12:48

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#4 User is offline   keylime 

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  Posted 2007-September-05, 13:41

(1NT) 2C* (majors) P -

2D = xfer to hearts
2H = xfer to spades
2S = G/I for hearts with spade feature (i.e. double fit type hands)
2NT = G/I for spades with heart feature (i.e. double fit)
3C = G/F, artificial, asking for fragment(4C/D later is retrans, 4H/S is to play)
3D = G/F, artificial, asking for shortage
3H = natural g/i
3S = natural g/i
3NT = very rare, to play

(1NT) 2D* (one major) P -

I'd play something along lines of paradox responses with 2NT being an ask about the major (3C/D - bad hands, 3H/S - good hands, or something thereof), 3C being a forcing invite asking if opener is interested in a game try in his major, 3D being a forcing invite asking if opener is interested in a game try in the OTHER major.

(1NT) X P -

2C = bid your minor
2D = bid your major
2H = a good club hand
2S = a good diamond hand
2NT = bid 3C pard (either to play 3C, to rebid 3D to show a G/I major 2 suiter)
3C = bid 3D pard (either to play 3D, or to make a G/F bid with pass/correct items)

If 3rd hand doubles, XX should force in case 1 a xfer to diamonds, in case 2, bid your major, and in case 3, general values with no direction, asking about the minor.
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#5 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-September-05, 14:03

Wow, I thought after (1N) 2C=majors, (P) everyone plays 2 to ask for the better major. It seems clearly superior to me, the whole point of using 2 for majors is so that you can use it with 5-4 hands and still find your 5-3 fit at the 2-level if necessary.
If 2-asker bids again it shows a game invite (whereas a jump to 3M is a shapely constructive hand). I admit Han and me haven't defined 2N.
Btw, something else to agree: when 2C or 2D gets doubled, is pass = to play and XX = show your (longer) suit, or XX = to play and pass = please show your suit (I prefer the former).
Obviously we have a recall bias in favour of the assholes. -helene_t
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#6 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-September-05, 14:38

cherdano, on Sep 5 2007, 10:03 PM, said:

Wow, I thought after (1N) 2C=majors, (P) everyone plays 2 to ask for the better major. It seems clearly superior to me, the whole point of using 2 for majors is so that you can use it with 5-4 hands and still find your 5-3 fit at the 2-level if necessary.
If 2-asker bids again it shows a game invite (whereas a jump to 3M is a shapely constructive hand). I admit Han and me haven't defined 2N.
Btw, something else to agree: when 2C or 2D gets doubled, is pass = to play and XX = show your (longer) suit, or XX = to play and pass = please show your suit (I prefer the former).

I agree 100% to 2 showing equal major suit length by advancer after overcaller showed both majors. That's absolutely standard here. 2NT is a game invite, an asking bid.
In all multi-type situations where the multi-type bid is doubled I play pass as showing the suit bid, xx asking partner to show his hand type/suit and a new suit by me to be natural (I don't need to know what you've got, I KNOW where to play).
Kind regards,
Harald
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#7 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2007-September-05, 14:46

And now for something completely different...

Having played a 2 opening as both majors preemptive for a long time, I can tell you that we decided to take our invitational hands out of the 2NT response. What? Why?

So what we did was use 2 on game invites or better. You then have various ways to continue. Here's an example over 2. You can invite or you can slam. This is obviously a complicated scheme.

2 - 2 - ?

2 4-4 or 4-5 majors
--2 GF/Slammish
----2N 4-4 majors, 3 relay
------3Short diamonds (then as 3/NT below)
------3 4=4=2=3 or 4=4=3=2
------3 4=4=4=1
------3NT 4=4=5=0
----3 4-5 majors, short diamonds (then as 3+ below)
----3 4=5=2=2
----3 4=5=3=1
----3 4=5=4=0
--2NT Invitational, NF
--3/ To play (Long minor, was interested only in 5)
--3 Invitational
--3 Invitational
--3NT To play (was interested in a 5-3 spade fit)

We used 2 to show 5-4 or 5-5 majors and 2N as the relay. 2NT+ as a response to 2 showed freak hands (6-5 or better).

2/2 were to play.

2NT for us was a natural invite. Don't know if there's a better use for it.
3m was natural and forcing.
3M was PRE
3NT to play

In competition we played as Arend with pass saying 2X is the best place to play, XX as bid your better major and 2 to play.

As per (1NT) - 2, just pretend you opened 2.
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#8 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-September-05, 14:54

Echognome, on Sep 5 2007, 10:46 PM, said:

And now for something completely different...

Having played a 2 opening as both majors preemptive for a long time, I can tell you that we decided to take our invitational hands out of the 2NT response. What? Why?

So what we did was use 2 on game invites or better. You then have various ways to continue. Here's an example over 2. You can invite or you can slam. This is obviously a complicated scheme.

2 - 2 - ?

2 4-4 or 4-5 majors
--2 GF/Slammish
----2N 4-4 majors, 3 relay
------3Short diamonds (then as 3/NT below)
------3 4=4=2=3 or 4=4=3=2
------3 4=4=4=1
------3NT 4=4=5=0
----3 4-5 majors, short diamonds (then as 3+ below)
----3 4=5=2=2
----3 4=5=3=1
----3 4=5=4=0
--2NT Invitational, NF
--3/ To play (Long minor, was interested only in 5)
--3 Invitational
--3 Invitational
--3NT To play (was interested in a 5-3 spade fit)

We used 2 to show 5-4 or 5-5 majors and 2N as the relay. 2NT+ as a response to 2 showed freak hands (6-5 or better).

2/2 were to play.

2NT for us was a natural invite. Don't know if there's a better use for it.
3m was natural and forcing.
3M was PRE
3NT to play

In competition we played as Arend with pass saying 2X is the best place to play, XX as bid your better major and 2 to play.

As per (1NT) - 2, just pretend you opened 2.

Many using the Ekrens 2 (weak with both majors) also use 2NT as natural invite and 3 as a forcing relay.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#9 User is offline   lowerline 

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Posted 2007-September-06, 01:42

pclayton, on Sep 5 2007, 01:29 PM, said:

Does anyone have a good response structure for responding to Woolsey after a 1N opening?

Over 2 (majors): I'm playing 2 = choose (if 2C is x'd, 2 is natural), 2/ to play. 2N is an enigma. It should be some sort of game try, but how?

Ditto with 1N - 2 - pass - 2N. I can see some sort of multi response structure here.

How about after 1N - dbl - pass - ?

After (1NT) - dbl - (p) -
pass = penalty
2 = P/C (to play in the minor)
2 = asks major (can be passed; so you can double with a (not so strong) diamond onesuiter as well)
2/ = to play with own suit
If you're using dbl as a "psyche detector" as well, you have to bid 2NT with that hand over partner's response.

After (1NT) - 2 - (p) -
pass = clubs
2 = you choose the major
2/ = I have chosen

After (1NT) - 2 - (dbl) -
rdbl = you choose the major
2 = to play
other bids as before

After (1NT) - 2 - (p) -
pass = diamonds
2 = P/C
-- pass = hearts
-- 2 = spades
-- 3m = natural strong overcall
-- 3M = natural strong overcall
2 = to play opp spades; inv opp hearts

After (1NT) - 2 - (dbl) -
rdbl = bid your suit
2/ = to play with own suit
other bids as before

After (1NT) - 2M - (p) -
3C = P/C (to play in the minor)

In all these cases you can play 2NT as an artificial strong asking bid and drive to game if partner shows a max. This won't come up a lot against a strong NT though.

(1NT) - 2NT would show a minor twosuiter, but you can play this as any freak twosuiter (not just the minors).
(1NT) - 3x are natural preemptive

Steven
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#10 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-September-06, 08:51

cherdano, on Sep 5 2007, 12:03 PM, said:

Wow, I thought after (1N) 2C=majors, (P) everyone plays 2 to ask for the better major. It seems clearly superior to me, the whole point of using 2 for majors is so that you can use it with 5-4 hands and still find your 5-3 fit at the 2-level if necessary.
If 2-asker bids again it shows a game invite (whereas a jump to 3M is a shapely constructive hand). I admit Han and me haven't defined 2N.
Btw, something else to agree: when 2C or 2D gets doubled, is pass = to play and XX = show your (longer) suit, or XX = to play and pass = please show your suit (I prefer the former).

Ditto. Dwayne's responses are interesting but its very important to me for the NT opener to be on lead and try to put the known hand from the bidding on the table.
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#11 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2007-September-06, 12:36

pclayton, on Sep 6 2007, 06:51 AM, said:

Ditto. Dwayne's responses are interesting but its very important to me for the NT opener to be on lead and try to put the known hand from the bidding on the table.

Not nearly as important as finding your best fit though. That's the big advantage of using 2 for the majors. As a side advantage, you can play in any suit at the 2-level if doubled.
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#12 User is offline   JanM 

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Posted 2007-September-08, 00:17

After 1NT-2-DBL (and also Multi 2-DBL, Kit, after whom the convention is named (and I think he actually was the first to suggest it, but no guarantees on that), likes to be able to play there when the partnership has a reasonable fit, so plays that Pass asks opener (oops - overcaller) to Pass with 2+ diamonds, RDBL with spades and bid 2 with hearts. Another option is to Pass with 3+, RDBL with 2 & bid only with 0-1.
Jan Martel, who should probably state that she is not speaking on behalf of the USBF, the ACBL, the WBF Systems Committee, or any member of any Systems Committee or Laws Commission.
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#13 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2007-September-10, 15:31

The rationale behind the scheme is the element that the known hand is to your right - keep in mind tho that I am influenced by Granovetter's views that transfers over a natural 1NT overcall should not be used (very nonstandard).

Secondly, it opens up more avenues of bidding that you do not have versus the regular Landy-style overcall: you can make more clear invites as Echo alluded to versus bidding 2D to ask and then getting a lead directional double to compete in diamonds. With the transfers you can show degrees of strength by passing, redoubling or bidding on. Furthermore, there is a certain fault tolerance when they come in and bid and you can invite more carefully and not get overly high.

Thirdly, I think with known 2 suiters to have the ability to preempt to the limit cheaply and to invite carefully. Call it a style thing.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
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