[zman102]

IMP
♠J106432
♥J2
♦42
♣KQ10

Pard opens in first seat with 4 spades (not vul vs vul). Next hand doubles. What do u do?

My second post so please bear with me if I have messed up.

I'll just go with this post and hope for the best.

[mike777]

zman102, on Aug 23 2007, 12:05 AM, said:

IMP
♠J106432
♥J2
♦42
♣KQ10

Pard opens in first seat with 4 spades (not vul vs vul). Next hand doubles. What do u do?

My second post so please bear with me if I have messed up.

I'll just go with this post and hope for the best.

I will try 5 clubs....

[zasanya]

If we pass and LHO bids 5♦ or♥ we would compete to at least 5.Right?
So bid 5♠ here and now.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

5S, but 6S is maybe better, at least
against reasonable opponents, since
it takes away 5NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Fluffy]

Opponents could have 2 club losers, even with a ruff and discard lead.

Could you disuade partner from leading a spade agaisnt slam? Only with lightner.


I bid 5♠ and double next.

[Codo]

My pd should have 7 spades, which leaves two chicanes in this suit for the opponents... So against not too experienced opps I would pass and gamble that they will double to show cards and that his partner will leave it in hoping for some spades in the doublers hand.

Against good pairs I would bid 5 Spade and let them find out how to go on.

[kenrexford]

mike777, on Aug 23 2007, 12:57 AM, said:

zman102, on Aug 23 2007, 12:05 AM, said:

IMP
♠J106432
♥J2
♦42
♣KQ10

Pard opens in first seat with 4 spades (not vul vs vul).  Next hand doubles.  What do u do?

My second post so please bear with me if I have messed up.

I'll just go with this post and hope for the best.

I will try 5 clubs....

I agree with this sentiment. Whether you bid at the five-level or six-level, bid the G.D. clubs.

[ulven]

I'm a passer, after checking their agreements about X (which could change my mind).

I have mixed feelings about 5C. It helps with lead and possible double fit but gives our LHO a chance to bid 5D/H freely, showing values to do so. That gives the doubler a chance to punt 6 or 7, virtually forcing us to save (well, maybe not but how is partner going to make an informed decision when we have 6-c support?). If I were to bid, I'd go with 5S therefore.

[FrancesHinden]

I don't see the point of bidding the clubs, because I'm not prepared to defend at the 6-level, and I have no interest in telling them anything about my hand if they wish to play a grand.

I would just bid 6S now and make them guess.

[Walddk]

I would pass and look seriously unhappy I honestly think that pass is the best tactical bid. Lefty who is looking at a hand with no spades is convinced that partner has a trump stack and will pass too.

Could well be that their agreement is that double of 4♠ is merely card showing, but my LHO will have doubts when s/he sees no 5-6♠ by me. Doubt is not unusual even in expert circles. Look at this hand from the One-Eyed Jacks BC in Copenhagen, the strongest club in the country:

♠ AQ1054
♥ --
♦ KJ82
♣ A1082

1♠ - 4♥
??

Teams, 12 tables. Five players who were well aware of the fact that, according to their agreement, a jump to the 4-level over 1♠ showed 9-11 hcp with spade support and void in the suit bid were convinced that partner had forgotten and passed.

You guessed it; 4♥ on the 0-0 fit was not a success versus a cold 6♠ (grand on a finesse).

Then add the two pairs who played the hand in 6♥! Opener trusted their partners and bid again over 4♥, but when responder at some point bid 6♥ (meant as a grand slam try), the two players changed their minds regarding a heart suit or not.

This would only happen among experts, but it does happen. In this thread we have something similar in my view. LHO will often be reluctant to bid over the double when s/he is void in spades.

Roland

[Gerben42]

I will bid 5♣ to avoid the deadly ruff-and-discard ♠ lead.

Funny game sometimes, isn't it

[helene_t]

I can't imagine that LHO will take the double as penalty unless they have specifically agreed so. Sometimes it can be a good tactic to conceal support so that one opp cannot read his p's shortness but I'm not sure if it has much tactical merrit in this case where both opps must be short. Maybe by passing I can get them too high because both opps thinks that his p's bidding is not based on shortness and must therefore have other values.

I think I'll bid 5♠ and sell out to 6♥. If p is known to be (much) more diciplined than I, I should probably bid 6♠.

[Free]

6♣. I'd like to show my ♣s, but since we're willing to sacrifice against their slam (which will probably make), I'll just fit jump At least LHO can't bid anything at the 5-level anymore...

[Fluffy]

My problem with 5♣ is that partner will want to lead ♠AKQxxxx, spceially because he has only 7, and it doesn't matter how many times we bid clubs.

[kenrexford]

Is there some reason to believe that partner cannot have Jx of clubs and a side card?

[FrancesHinden]

kenrexford, on Aug 23 2007, 04:19 PM, said:

Is there some reason to believe that partner cannot have Jx of clubs and a side card?

If you are prepared to defend at the 6-level, you can bid clubs now if you like.
If you are planning to save over 6 red suit, I see no point in bidding clubs.

[kenrexford]

FrancesHinden, on Aug 23 2007, 10:29 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Aug 23 2007, 04:19 PM, said:

Is there some reason to believe that partner cannot have Jx of clubs and a side card?

If you are prepared to defend at the 6-level, you can bid clubs now if you like.
If you are planning to save over 6 red suit, I see no point in bidding clubs.

Why can't I defend at the five-level? If the club Ace is to my right, and partner has some extra defense, I'm OK with defending at the five-level.

Give partner something juicy, and he might just double them at the five-level.

Give partner a 7-4 swan, clubs, secondary, and he'll make a good decision.

These kind of hands are funny. Sure, we have a lot of spades. Whoopdie-do. That'll take the seven tricks we expected at the beginning. The key is the side-suit holdings. I sure would like to let partner know where I live, because I have no idea where he lives on the side.

[jdonn]

I sort of like pass, although I'm hoping to make them misjudge the hand and not push them to anything, I certainly don't think it will fool the next player about what the double meant (Roland??? where do you find these opponents lol)

[Walddk]

jdonn, on Aug 23 2007, 05:48 PM, said:

I sort of like pass, although I'm hoping to make them misjudge the hand and not push them to anything, I certainly don't think it will fool the next player about what the double meant (Roland??? where do you find these opponents lol)

You can find the first 100,000+ on BBO. Believe me, they will pass with a spade void because they don't play take-out doubles that high. Only trouble is that their partners are unlikely to double, because they don't play TO doubles that high either.

Roland

[mikeh]

There was (is) a thread on BBO about the difference between optimism and pessimism.

Visualizing partner with Jx of clubs and either a side card or the opps having nowhere to pitch their 2 club losers is one of my examples of pessimistic thinking.

Yes, it may happen. But, no, it isn't likely. It's the kind of holding we visualize when we are staring at half-empty glasses, while the field sees them as half-full.

It seems to me that passing is best against reasonable or good opps, and bidding 4N is best against most BBO-level opps.

Bidding at the 5-level (clubs for example) makes sense only if we intend to defend, and I am NOT defending any red 6 level contract, and I am not convinced I am defending a grand.

Bidding 6♠ is my second choice against reasonable opps: make them guess.

Pass has several things going for it.

Both opps may be maximum for their initial action. Thus double and LHO bids 5 red, thinking that it is a close call... then RHO passing, because while 5 red promises offensive values, rho may be reluctant to risk a slam.

LHO may bid 4N, as a scramble, and RHO with a sterile but maximum 5440 might get passed in whatever 5 level bid he makes... heck, it is not inconceivable that we may defend 5 or 6♣! (bidding 5♣ tends to reduce this possibility)

And, since I am saving in 6♠ anyway... let them bid it first and then I'll save... I think that this makes it a little less likely that they will bid 7 even when it makes, thus avoiding the need for me to consider the 7♠ dive.

Furthermore, by passing, I allow LHO to paint a better picture of his shape, which is going to be what influences me at the 7 level.

This hand shows why bridge is not a game of inflexible rules: the usual expert approach in these kinds of auctions is to advance the preempt as high as one dares as soon as one can...

Finally, at the risk of boring everyone, this hand does remind me of a hand I held in a Regional Pairs many years ago: white v red, partner opened 3♠, RHO bid 4♠ and my 6♥ ended the auction, albeit after some slow passes. 6♥ was down 12: Qxxx xx Qxxxx xx. RHO was afraid grand would fail and 6♠ doubled would be less than 6♥ undoubled.

So I was surprised to see no votes so far for 6 red