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spychic bid

#1 User is offline   spwdo 

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Posted 2004-January-11, 01:36

hi,


i enconterd several spychic bids while hosting my tourneys, i think i got how to handle them after discussd this with ecepal, but can someone fill me in completely as i didnt find any topisc on this in the convention sites i have. specific, one player said after pass , pass, 2!C , i always bid 2!D (that players didnt had any !D 5 hcp), his partner thought it was real bid but didnt had enough points to support, i believe this is called spychic but after discussion the reason for his bid, the next round or so(when it could happen again), because of this discussion i believe that it has enterd the cc and therefore not allowed,


thx
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Posted 2004-January-11, 04:50

how about if they play 2C opening as strongest bid OR weak with D in 3rd hand? Then it's allowed right? But then they should also alert...

EDIT: woops, misread again...
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#3 User is offline   BurnKryten 

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Posted 2004-January-11, 14:21

It sounds like the auction is actually this:

Pass - Pass - 2C (1) - 2D (2)

1) Strong, artificial
2) Not alerted. Explained afterwards (to the director) as "I always make this call, regardless of which 13 cards I hold"


Regarding the incident in question, no offense has occurred. His partner was no more aware of the possibility of a psych than the opponents. However, unless this player is going to have a new partner for every session, this psych quickly becomes illegal. It will rapidly become obvious to his partners that this two diamond bid "always" happens, and then the opponents need to be informed.


John
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#4 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

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Posted 2004-January-11, 17:34

BurnKryten, on Jan 11 2004, 03:21 PM, said:

It sounds like the auction is actually this:

Pass - Pass - 2C (1) - 2D (2)

1) Strong, artificial
2) Not alerted. Explained afterwards (to the director) as "I always make this call, regardless of which 13 cards I hold"


Regarding the incident in question, no offense has occurred. His partner was no more aware of the possibility of a psych than the opponents. However, unless this player is going to have a new partner for every session, this psych quickly becomes illegal. It will rapidly become obvious to his partners that this two diamond bid "always" happens, and then the opponents need to be informed.


John

I agree with this, but when you do this against better players you will get in some trouble very quickly. In that auction I play that X by me is a very weak hand and pass by me after 2Posted Image shows a positive hand. And the only thing by bidding 2Posted Image is that you are giving me more space to let my pd know what is going on, and on top of that, we might occasionally totally destroy you for interfering on nothing ;) Maybe this might work a few times against some little old ladies <_< hope they werehave fun doing it.

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Posted 2004-January-11, 17:41

I know that you can use every possible defense against 1NT and strong 1C, but I don't know if it's allowed on a strong 2C opening. If it would be, you can even make a system out of it, otherwise your bid should show some 4+ card suit.

Anyway, I think it's ridiculous to always bid 2D after 2C opening, because you give opponents an extra bid (actually 2 bids: dbl by responder, and dbl by opener after a pass by responder). Give it at least some meaning...
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#6 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

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Posted 2004-January-11, 19:10

Free, on Jan 11 2004, 06:41 PM, said:

I know that you can use every possible defense against 1NT and strong 1C, but I don't know if it's allowed on a strong 2C opening. If it would be, you can even make a system out of it, otherwise your bid should show some 4+ card suit.

Anyway, I think it's ridiculous to always bid 2D after 2C opening, because you give opponents an extra bid (actually 2 bids: dbl by responder, and dbl by opener after a pass by responder). Give it at least some meaning...

You can use same any defense you want against 2Posted Image. I use Exclusion Transfers, basically whatever you bid is a transfer to next higher suit, either you have that suit or you have a TO for that suit. And if you transfer to NT, you have any 2 suited hand. And you can bid this at any level. ;) Really makes a mess of opps, gotta love it.
So, 2Posted Image - 3Posted Image = a Transfer to Posted Image, which you either have or you have the 3 other suits.

And bidding 2Posted Image gives them actually 3 bids <_<
Pass by responder has a meaning too.

Mike :D
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#7 User is offline   Gerben47 

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Posted 2004-January-12, 03:59

Normally playing "almost always 2D" after 2C, I don't mind opponents bidding 2D regardless what they have so I can tell my partner if I have almost nothing or a little something.

Against artificial openings (like 2C strong) you can play whatever you want. For me that means the usual gadget: Either you have the suit you bid or the next two.
(2C) 3D shows diamonds or the majors. This also makes a mess of the opponent's methods.
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Posted 2004-January-12, 07:16

I don't think this kind of bid (2c)-2D where 2D shows 13 cards is legal in the ACBL. I use to play somthing akin to this over 1C precision opening bids, where we would bid 1S on virtually any hand (with or without spades) just to get the opponents out of their comfort zone. I was told that these automatic defenses promisesig nothing were not legal. I never persued rather they were or not, simply because it was my partners idea to play it that way, and I was glad to get out fo using it anyway.

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Posted 2004-January-12, 09:59

Trpltrbl, on Jan 12 2004, 10:10 AM, said:

And bidding 2Posted Image gives them actually 3 bids <_<
Pass by responder has a meaning too.

Mike :D

Euhm no, it stays only 2 bids, because the 2D bid is gone ;) So the extra bids of responder are 2-1 = 1 :D :D
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Posted 2004-January-12, 10:19

Well, while 2D is gone, you give them PASS... which actually replaces the 2D bid, double which can have whatever meaning they want to apply. So that is 2 bids, plus the one that is gone, then you give them a reopening double which wasn't an option, and you give the original passes, the option to pass again, or to cue-bid 3D (since 2D pass was an option) which gives extra meaning to the 3D bid.

So.. old bid... 2D = 1 option

New bids..

2D-Pass
2D-Dbl
2D-Pass-Pass-Dbl-Pass-Pass
2D-Pass-Pass-DBL-Pass-3D (really is a new bid, sicne with D, pass).

So it looks more like 4-1 = 3 new bids to me... or if you want to argue about 3D now not being new (which it has to be imho), then it is 3-1 or two new bids. Not t his matters a lot, 2D as just showing 13 cards steals no bidding room, does not help your side find anything useful in the way of lead or potential sacrafice. Let's say they simply use step responses to 2C.. with 2D showing 0 to 6 hcp, and 2H showing 6+ but with one control, and 2S showing 6+ with two. OVer 2D, they might play Pass shows 0 to 6, DBL show 6+ with one, and now 2H 6+ with 2 controls, so in this case, your saved one step is right. But sometimes even one step is a lot. Now, maybe 2H by opener becomes natural rather than a relay with dbl being the relay, they may save an entire level of bidding (opener not having to jump to 3H or bid 2H/3H to show hearts).

Ben
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