[Gerben42]

My condoleances to the family and friends of all the victims of this horrible shooting, and at the same time an appeal to every thinking US-citizen.

Zillions of dollars are spent on fighting terrorists, yet nothing is done to prevent horrible acts like this. I find it beyond belief that students can buy a machine gun (although if you look Arabic you might be arrested the next day if you did), you'd think that it would be the first step towards keeping the US population safe is to get rid of this law.

People like the guy who was on German television a couple of minutes ago who suggested that if the teachers would have had a gun that they could have protected the student, have in my opinion completely lost their connection to reality.

[Al_U_Card]

Unfortunately, the demonstration of the greater aspects of the U.S. spirit and mentality is inextricably entwined with "necessary" freedoms. A heavy price to pay but one that the Americans seem ready to withstand.

[pclayton]

I find it curious that many that want to restrict guns and are ready to toss aside this right are also those that moan the loudest when other freedoms like free speech and assembly are threatened.

My prayers and condolences go out to those in Blacksburg. I have a cousin who lives and operates several H and R Block franchises in that city.

[Gerben42]

Quote

I find it curious that many that want to restrict guns and are ready to toss aside this right are also those that moan the loudest when other freedoms like free speech and assembly are threatened.

Sorry but these are completely different things. Considering this, why is there no freedom to drink alcohol or use drugs in the USA?

I think you should not take away someone's hunting rifle that people use to hunt deer, just like you shouldn't take away people's fishing rod. But why not restrict it to hunting rifles then? Most guns are NOT made to shoot deer, yet they are designed to be aimed against other people.

If you are in possession of dangerous tools you should have a proper education and licence to prove it. In many jobs you might encounter dangerous materials and they cannot be used without a proper training. Car drivers have passed a test and have a licence to drive. If you want to own a gun a similar procedure should be followed.

Does anyone in the forum have a gun at home? If you do, consider this: If an unarmed burglar is in your house, how sure are you that if you are at home you will not suddenly be facing the wrong end of your own gun? What might have started as a relatively harmless (for your health) burglary may suddenly lead to your death!

[cherdano]

pclayton, on Apr 17 2007, 12:43 PM, said:

I find it curious that many that want to restrict guns and are ready to toss aside this right are also those that moan the loudest when other freedoms like free speech and assembly are threatened.

Well. I can promise you that out of 1,000 European intellectuals, no matter how good they get to know the USA, how long they live there etc., 999 will never understand the 2nd-amendment-supporters and how they can even mention the right to have weapons in the same sentence as the right to free speech. It will never enter my mind. Feel free to try if you want, but if I tell you ahead that it will be a waste of time then that's just being honest. (I have read enough posts on this in other forums.)

I am aware gun control in the realities of the US is a complicated issue, and the liberal-gun-laws-to-high-gun-homicide correlation in the US compared to other industrialized nation is actually a quite complex topic.

[pclayton]

I won't try to convince a gun control advocate about the 2nd Amendment, however, I think the framers of the constitution had it right all along. I don't think the constitution is like a Chinese menu, that you can pick and choose and mix and match it to fit your own taste. This isn't one of those gray areas.

Believe me, I share the same indignation about the Patriot Act. I just find a lot of hypocrisy on both sides of these issues.

[pbleighton]

"I won't try to convince a gun control advocate about the 2nd Amendment, however, I think the framers of the constitution had it right all along. I don't think the constitution is like a Chinese menu, that you can pick and choose and mix and match it to fit your own taste. This isn't one of those gray areas."

Phil, do you accept the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Second Amendment?

Peter

[cherdano]

pbleighton, on Apr 17 2007, 03:18 PM, said:

"I won't try to convince a gun control advocate about the 2nd Amendment, however, I think the framers of the constitution had it right all along. I don't think the constitution is like a Chinese menu, that you can pick and choose and mix and match it to fit your own taste. This isn't one of those gray areas."

Phil, do you accept the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Second Amendment?

Peter

Oh, I forgot to explain you the 'quote' button: Just press on "quote" at the top right corner of the post you want to quote, and it will work automatically. You can delete text if you want to quote part of a post only.

[mike777]

My prayers go out to the families.

I may be wrong, but were not some gun control laws broken by the shooter? I assume it is illegal to have a gun on campus? Is the debate to have even more gun control laws?

If so which "more" laws do you wish for?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/17/...in2693365.shtml

[pclayton]

pbleighton, on Apr 17 2007, 01:18 PM, said:

"I won't try to convince a gun control advocate about the 2nd Amendment, however, I think the framers of the constitution had it right all along. I don't think the constitution is like a Chinese menu, that you can pick and choose and mix and match it to fit your own taste. This isn't one of those gray areas."

Phil, do you accept the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Second Amendment?

Peter

From what I've read, the Supreme Court has punted a lot of the right to legislate to the States. While I suppose this dilutes the framer's intent by allowing regulation in certain instances, I think the overall intent is intact, so no I don't have a problem with it.

There have been many instances of legislative changes to the 2nd Amendment as well.

[pbleighton]

Quote

If so which "more" laws do you wish for?

1. Banning of all civilian ownership and use of handguns, semiautomatic weapons, and automatic weapons.
2. Registration of rifles and shotguns.

It's my understanding that the Supreme Court's rulings on gun control would permit this. There is currently a lower court ruling, which will very likely be heard by the Court, which is far more restrictive of legislation.

I would accept a more restrictive interpretation by the Court (though I wouldn't like it), and would oppose any effort to change the Second Amendment in any way.

I would oppose any effort to ban rifles and/or shotguns, except those which are either automatic, semiautomatic, and easily convertible. Hunting, target practice, and defense of the home are legitimate activities.

Peter

[cherdano]

mike777, on Apr 17 2007, 03:31 PM, said:

I may be wrong, but were not some gun control laws broken by the shooter? I assume it is illegal to have a gun on campus? Is the debate to have even more gun control laws?

A typical Mike post with provocative questions with some half-truths implied that hardly make sense, but I'll bite. The point of gun control would be to make it harder for him to acquire the weapons in the first place.

[mike777]

pbleighton, on Apr 17 2007, 04:58 PM, said:

Quote

If so which "more" laws do you wish for?

1. Banning of all civilian ownership and use of handguns, semiautomatic weapons, and automatic weapons.
2. Registration of rifles and shotguns.

It's my understanding that the Supreme Court's rulings on gun control would permit this. There is currently a lower court ruling, which will very likely be heard by the Court, which is far more restrictive of legislation.

I would accept a more restrictive interpretation by the Court (though I wouldn't like it), and would oppose any effort to change the Second Amendment in any way.

I would oppose any effort to ban rifles and/or shotguns, except those which are either automatic, semiautomatic, and easily convertible. Hunting, target practice, and defense of the home are legitimate activities.

Peter

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7030902416.html

[mike777]

cherdano, on Apr 17 2007, 05:01 PM, said:

mike777, on Apr 17 2007, 03:31 PM, said:

I may be wrong, but were not some gun control laws broken by the shooter? I assume it is illegal to have a gun on campus?  Is the debate to have even more gun control laws?

A typical Mike post with provocative questions with some half-truths implied that hardly make sense, but I'll bite. The point of gun control would be to make it harder for him to acquire the weapons in the first place.

Ok which truth did I state that was only half?
Which logic did I state that hardly makes sense to you?
Ok, what laws do you want to pass to make it more difficult? Perhaps you just advocate what Peter suggested?

[pbleighton]

Mike, I'm aware of the lower court ruling and referenced it in my post.

This isn't the Supreme Court position until the Supreme Court says it is. If it does, I'm OK with it, but until and unless that happens, let's not, ahem, *jump the gun*.

Peter

[mike777]

pbleighton, on Apr 17 2007, 05:26 PM, said:

Mike, I'm aware of the lower court ruling and referenced it in my post.

This isn't the Supreme Court position until the Supreme Court says it is. If it does, I'm OK with it, but until and unless that happens, let's not, ahem, *jump the gun*.

Peter

Yes you did which is why I posted more information. Again I am not disagreeing with you.

[Rain]

No to guns.

There are other ways of murdering people, but why make it easy.

The victims had a right to live their lives too. What right was more important?

[DrTodd13]

The right to resist tyrants when they confiscate over half of your income.

[cherdano]

DrTodd13, on Apr 17 2007, 05:09 PM, said:

The right to resist tyrants when they confiscate over half of your income.

You are making the case for gun control much better than I ever could.

[pclayton]

I Have a question for the gun control advocates.

Are you more afraid of legalized concealed weapons or Iran building a nuclear bomb?