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A Simple Question?

Poll: Your call? (26 member(s) have cast votes)

Your call?

  1. Double (7 votes [26.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.92%

  2. 3D (8 votes [30.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.77%

  3. Other (11 votes [42.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.31%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 07:03

MP Both NV
VOID=AKQ9=AQ9876=KT9
(3C)=?

EDITED.
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 07:29

Hmm. Are you sure you put the suits in the right order? :P
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#3 User is offline   bid_em_up 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 10:19

If the hands are correct, I pass and pray my partner can find a reopening double.
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
So many experts, not enough X cards.
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#4 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2006-December-19, 11:19

double, 5D over 4S.
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#5 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 11:23

I really dislike doubling without spades in situations like this. In fact I prefer to play "double then correct" as a flexible hand rather than a hand "too strong for an overcall." I'm sure that if I double partner will bid 4; the question is whether my bidding diamonds over that implies the hand I actually have (rather than being a cuebid for spades or showing some strong 3361), and whether we have a reasonable contract at the five-level. I'd rather avoid the whole issue with my first call.

With this hand I'd try 4, regardless of whether that's a strong one-suiter or a strong two-suiter with diamonds and a major.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#6 User is offline   temp3600 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 12:11

3, mainly because the diamond suit is not that great, and it keeps the bidding low.
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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 12:15

3 for me. I don't like dbl on this kind of hand.
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#8 User is offline   HeartA 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 22:12

Jlall, on Dec 19 2006, 12:19 PM, said:

double, 5D over 4S.

and 3NT over 3S.
Senshu
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#9 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 23:00

awm, on Dec 19 2006, 09:23 AM, said:

I really dislike doubling without spades in situations like this. In fact I prefer to play "double then correct" as a flexible hand rather than a hand "too strong for an overcall." I'm sure that if I double partner will bid 4; the question is whether my bidding diamonds over that implies the hand I actually have (rather than being a cuebid for spades or showing some strong 3361), and whether we have a reasonable contract at the five-level. I'd rather avoid the whole issue with my first call.

With this hand I'd try 4, regardless of whether that's a strong one-suiter or a strong two-suiter with diamonds and a major.

Ditto. Can't stand doubling with a void in the higher ranking suit.
"Phil" on BBO
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#10 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 23:14

4 - i use to require 5-5 or 5-6 for this bid (diamonds and unbid major). Mishovnbg pushed me to include 4-6 type hands as well. I will bid 5 over 4.
--Ben--

#11 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 23:40

I bid 4D because that is 5D and a 5 card Major. This hand is so good that I am going to treat is as a 5/5. I can't believe some of the comments I am reading here like pass. - World's greatest optimist, deserving all pass!
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#12 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2006-December-19, 23:53

The_Hog, on Dec 20 2006, 12:40 AM, said:

I bid 4D because that is 5D and a 5 card Major. This hand is so good that I am going to treat is as a 5/5. I can't believe some of the comments I am reading here like pass. - World's greatest optimist, deserving all pass!

The hand was originally posted with the diamond and club suits reversed. That explains the early passers
--Ben--

#13 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2006-December-20, 01:30

Ah. Like this I dbl. Hearts are nice. B)
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#14 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2006-December-20, 01:40

Come on guys and gals..this is newer player section....ok!

You got to agree on something! B)
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#15 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2006-December-20, 01:49

This is why preempting as often and random is so nice B)

The point is whether or not X can include GOSH's (good one suited hands) -if it can then doubling seems a bit incorrect and whether or not 4 is Leaping Michaels or just a hand too strong to bid 3 (in former case, this hand is ideal, in latter it is a little bit misdescriptive). This is why it's good to have as many situations as possible like this discussed.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#16 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2006-December-20, 03:11

inquiry, on Dec 20 2006, 03:53 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Dec 20 2006, 12:40 AM, said:

I bid 4D because that is 5D and a 5 card Major. This hand is so good that I am going to treat is as a 5/5. I can't believe some of the comments I am reading here like pass. - World's greatest optimist, deserving all pass!

The hand was originally posted with the diamond and club suits reversed. That explains the early passers

Thanks Ben, that does make a huge difference.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#17 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2006-December-20, 03:11

But this assumes fixed and in depth partnerships....no one has convinced me that 99+ partnerships are not this.......in over decades
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#18 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2006-December-20, 03:19

As Ben and Ron, I use whatever (non)-leaping Michaels I play (4 in my IRL partnership). If that's not available I bid 3NT.
Jesus! You have 7 count 5332 hand and pd passed 1 NT ffs! Are you planning to compete to 4 level or DBL a partscore with this shape and/or tricks? People who spend too much time in D.T topic started to talk like him --- MrAce
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#19 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2006-December-20, 04:16

helene_t, on Dec 20 2006, 04:19 AM, said:

As Ben and Ron, I use whatever (non)-leaping Michaels I play (4 in my IRL partnership). If that's not available I bid 3NT.

What ever this means I bet this is a winner .....just not sure what the heck it means in the middle of the battle heat.

I assume we are not expert players.
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#20 User is online   cherdano 

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Posted 2006-December-20, 04:50

awm, on Dec 19 2006, 07:23 PM, said:

I really dislike doubling without spades in situations like this. In fact I prefer to play "double then correct" as a flexible hand rather than a hand "too strong for an overcall." I'm sure that if I double partner will bid 4; the question is whether my bidding diamonds over that implies the hand I actually have (rather than being a cuebid for spades or showing some strong 3361), and whether we have a reasonable contract at the five-level. I'd rather avoid the whole issue with my first call.

With this hand I'd try 4, regardless of whether that's a strong one-suiter or a strong two-suiter with diamonds and a major.

1) I agree 100% that doubling is never a one-suited hand too strong to overcall. That hand can bid 4 or 5.
2) If you bid 5 over 4, that is IMO clearly a suggestion to play. If you want to make a slam try for spades, you can always bid 5. Finding a strain is too important to make ALL bids a slam try for spades here.
3) So the question is how much tolerance 5 promises for spades. With 3 spades, you have to accept spades as trumps, 4 will pretty much always have 5+ cards, so I don't think 3361 is possible. I as partner would expect some tolerance though, a small doubleton or singleton honor.

So I do think doubling-then-5 is a misdecription of the hand. But what is better? What do you do after 3-3? I have the feeling I will never get to describe my shape nor my strength after 3. So I will go with double.
Obviously we have a recall bias in favour of the assholes. -helene_t
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